Ever battled with technical snafus or yearned for guidance amidst life's complexities? Luckily, we've managed to wrangle our Focusrite oddities (thanks in advance for any pro tips!) and are jazzed to share a cozy catch-up filled with laughter, a few "Would You Rather" brain-twisters, and a special introduction to Juju Bear, the furball in training who's already mastering the art of comfort. You'll find yourself chuckling along as we debate the merits of noisy versus sneaky flatulence and meditate on the lighter side of life's awkward moments.
Venture with us into the mystical realm of tarot cards, not as fortune-telling devices, but as reflective tools in the therapeutic landscape. We unravel the symbolism of the Wild Unknown deck's artistry, and with the savvy insight of the Wandering Moon Company's reversal interpretations, we conduct a collective tarot reading. It's a journey through the Five of Pentacles' lessons of financial resilience and the Devil card's cautionary tales. You'll glean how these cards can mirror your inner world, prompting deeper introspection and self-discovery without the need for a crystal ball.
We wrap things up with a heart-to-heart on the rollercoaster of personal growth, confronting the heaviness of transformation and grief. Imagine unloading life's burdensome backpack, piece by piece, examining each item with care. We candidly share our experiences of loss and the societal tug-of-war between feeling and "fixing." This episode isn't just about finding peace with the past; it's about embracing the raw, human side of our stories and the shared path toward emotional well-being. Pull up a chair, lend us your ears, and let's navigate this winding road together.
The Wild Unknown Tarot Deck
Instagram @mentalbreakitdown
Email: mentalbreakitdown@gmail.com
Logo Artwork: artofandoy.com
Connect with us of you have questions, want to be on the podcast, or have topics you want discussed!
Ever battled with technical snafus or yearned for guidance amidst life's complexities? Luckily, we've managed to wrangle our Focusrite oddities (thanks in advance for any pro tips!) and are jazzed to share a cozy catch-up filled with laughter, a few "Would You Rather" brain-twisters, and a special introduction to Juju Bear, the furball in training who's already mastering the art of comfort. You'll find yourself chuckling along as we debate the merits of noisy versus sneaky flatulence and meditate on the lighter side of life's awkward moments.
Venture with us into the mystical realm of tarot cards, not as fortune-telling devices, but as reflective tools in the therapeutic landscape. We unravel the symbolism of the Wild Unknown deck's artistry, and with the savvy insight of the Wandering Moon Company's reversal interpretations, we conduct a collective tarot reading. It's a journey through the Five of Pentacles' lessons of financial resilience and the Devil card's cautionary tales. You'll glean how these cards can mirror your inner world, prompting deeper introspection and self-discovery without the need for a crystal ball.
We wrap things up with a heart-to-heart on the rollercoaster of personal growth, confronting the heaviness of transformation and grief. Imagine unloading life's burdensome backpack, piece by piece, examining each item with care. We candidly share our experiences of loss and the societal tug-of-war between feeling and "fixing." This episode isn't just about finding peace with the past; it's about embracing the raw, human side of our stories and the shared path toward emotional well-being. Pull up a chair, lend us your ears, and let's navigate this winding road together.
The Wild Unknown Tarot Deck
Instagram @mentalbreakitdown
Email: mentalbreakitdown@gmail.com
Logo Artwork: artofandoy.com
Connect with us of you have questions, want to be on the podcast, or have topics you want discussed!
Welcome to Mental Break it Down, a podcast for therapists and the therapy curious, where we dig into all things mental health and mental health adjacent. We're so happy you're here, let's jump in. We're here, we are here, we're finally here. Two days of technical issues and we're still having it. We're on backup mics. It sounds crazy. I don't know what to tell you. We've done our best. It is what it is. We don't know anything. Hey, that's life. Right, I've got this and how to do this. I've Googled so much. If any of you listening knows how to deal with robotic and garbled and broken and staticky audio on a focus right I I audio interface, please let me know. You just said a bunch of words that you don't, even I don't know. This is why your life is better than mine, because this is mine. I like to do this, and so it's the, the whole. I've dug myself.
Sonia:Uh-huh, you've burdened yourself with it.
Sam:I'm going to drink my protein shake for comfort.
Sonia:Great Send. What is it? Sam is reaching out to the network 1-800-HELP-US.
Sam:Please email us at mentalbrickidownatgmailcom with any tips, tricks or videos of you crying with me Great.
Sonia:Solidarity. Uh, we also have uh Juju Bear in the studio today. Hi, hi. Uh Juju is my dog and we are working to um have her be a therapy, support animal, A comfort dog. A comfort dog and she's, she's very low she's comfortable. She's very comfortable, so, um, if you hear anything, that's, that's my dog.
Sam:Like her licking. Stop it, ma'am.
Sonia:Okay, well, let's, let's get into it. What do you got?
Sam:Yes, Would you rather oh no eat a cockroach you found in your house, or eat a worm that just crawled out of the ground outside?
Sonia:Oh, worm for sure.
Sam:Why.
Sonia:Um, I guess I could pretend it's like a spaghetti noodle, slurp it up, just no crunching. A crunching cockroach feels like a lot of textures and they do enjoy, and a lot of movement. Yeah, a lot of movement. Like there's like what do they call those things that they have? Antennas? Yes, thank you, there's that. There's a little feet. There's the crunchy exterior, which I love, a good crunchy chip, but I don't think I want that. So worm earth, earth I mean, we've all eaten dirt as kids, right?
Sam:Speak for yourself. Come on, absolutely.
Sonia:Yes, I'm familiar.
Sam:I just cockroaches are everywhere and so I know eating the cockroach it's probably like hung out in my bathroom. It's been in the garage, it's been in other people's houses, so it is the additional layers of filth to it in places. It should not be, so I will eat a clean outside worm any day, right, yes?
Sonia:Absolutely Give it to me.
Sam:I have another question.
Sonia:Oh, a double special today.
Sam:Let me find that and that one's way too crazy.
Sonia:But we actually agree on our answers this time we do, for slightly different reasons, but similar.
Sam:So would you rather have your farts be super loud and smell like nothing, or would you rather them be silent but smell absolutely horrible? But do they know that it's you is the question. But after a certain amount of time, if you hang out with the same people, they're going to be like every time Sonia's here, it smells like shit.
Sonia:Or like boiled eggs. Yeah, so far. Otherwise it's just yeah, yeah, silent and deadly, or loud and fine, harmless. Oh gosh, why don't you answer this time first? Why don't you?
Sam:answer. I also. This one's hard for me. I don't know. I don't know because I can imagine sitting with clients and just like it has to be a part of informed consent. Like my body sometimes will do things Okay, but like here's the thing. Here's my question. You know, because sometimes you can successfully hold in farts or allow them to sneak out. So is it that all of your farts have to come out very loud or silent?
Sonia:I feel like these kinds of questions it has to be one or the other, Like I feel like there's no wiggle room, Like if you like, hold it in and it went from like a loud, like smelly fart to then it turned into just stench.
Sam:I don't think that's how this game works, I know, but there's so much nuance, I know, and I don't think this game is meant to be nuanced.
Sonia:Why not? Because it's just like. Would you rather there's no like? Pick and choose, samantha, this is not Burger King. You can't have it your way.
Sam:But so much of life, I can't have it my way. Why can't it at least be this metaphorical?
Sonia:Welcome to life. Welcome to life, did you?
Sam:just get here. I feel insulted by that highly.
Sonia:Oh, you're so judgey, a pick one Loud and harmless.
Sam:You know what? I think I'd go loud. I would just be like, yeah, I would go loud. I mean, right now I have issues with filters and if I'm comfortable, I might probably burp at you at some point.
Sonia:So things are already happening, it's already happening, and there's just another par for the course for Sam.
Sam:She's troubled.
Sonia:Well, I think if I was a client and my therapist just told me hey, my body does weird things, it's out of my control I would rather it be a sound and a quick and over A quick and over, rather than an odor that lingers, and then the door is closed and there's no air flow, and then you're just sitting in it, which could activate someone's gag reflex For you?
Sam:is it the same with friends and family too? You'd just rather it be quick and everybody just knows yes.
Sonia:Fair enough. There's Sonia just out here tooting again. I don't know, but I'd much rather it be loud than smelly.
Sam:I mean, it's just like people that have like when we have reflexes sometimes will burp yeah, this is what it is.
Sonia:And in some cultures, burping and bodily sounds after you eat a really good meal is a compliment. Did you grow up in a household where bodily sounds were laughed at or encouraged?
Sam:It was. Whatever my brother would burp or we would burp, it was everybody would be like compliments to the chef. So that tells you the culture I grew up.
Sonia:OK, so then the loud is fine.
Sam:Well, nobody I personally know would care about the loudness. Yeah, it's just with clients and friends.
Sonia:Ok, it would be a get to know Sam. Again, I'd rather it be loud, quick and over than lingering odors.
Sam:All right, you heard it here, folks Worms. I want other people to like message us with what they would choose and why. I'm really curious to see if anybody else thinks differently for different reasons.
Sonia:Oh, I always want to know why. For sure, give us your answer and then tell us why.
Sam:We're going to post the social media. It's like hey, tell us about your preference for farts.
Sonia:Hey, it's a great eyes. I'm a professional.
Sam:I literally googled unhinged. Would you rather Speaking of unhinged?
Sonia:let's talk about it. Let's talk about it.
Sam:That movie you made me watch.
Sonia:Yes, so I watched a movie earlier this week and I didn't know what I was getting myself into and it was called Unhinged Russell Crowe's in it.
Sam:You're obsessed with this movie right now.
Sonia:I'm not obsessed with the movie but like literally you told everybody you've talked to to watch it.
Sam:It's just been you. You just told our new tenant about it. Oh, and her. And also didn't you tell Kim, Probably.
Sonia:Anyways, it's called Unhinged and literally unhinged. All of it Start to finish, like literally start to finish, am I right?
Sam:It is unhinged. I was just really disappointed in his behavior the whole time. Of course, this is a person that needs, I think it gave me so much anxiety.
Sonia:So much anxiety. I already have anxiety with driving, so it's a movie based on road rage, so we won't spoil it if anybody's, you came out in 2020.
Sam:You can find it on Netflix? Yes, I think.
Sonia:Please watch it. Let us know your thoughts. But yes, I had high anxiety the entire time. Also the emotional dysregulation of this individual.
Sam:Get it together.
Sonia:Get it together, get some therapy, get a hobby Meditation. Box breathe, what All those things. And so I was so flabbergasted by this movie that I had to have Sam watch it too.
Sam:I don't like anything, Because every time you recommend a movie or something, be like hey, have you felt anxious in a while, have you? When was the last time you cried? You should watch this. I bawled my eyes out and I'm like I don't want to watch your documentary about elephants. That will have me in a puddle.
Sonia:Oh yes, Still haven't watched it. I refuse, you have to at one and up an Academy Award. I believe that doesn't mean I have to, no but it's so good.
Sam:Yes, but the way you deliver your recommendations is poor.
Sonia:It's poorly worded. How would you like me to describe the movie? Unhinged?
Sam:You'd be like hey, this is what you could have said is hey, this movie was crazy. I need to hear your thoughts. Will you watch it?
Sonia:What do they say?
Sam:This movie is crazy. There's a whole bunch of like what is it? Criminal crimes, there's crimes. It gave me anxiety. To where, then, I'm dreading watching it. Please watch it, sam, but if you manipulate me a little bit and be like, hey, there was this thing towards the end, I'm not going to tell you about it, but I need to know your thoughts. What that's going to do to me is tell me that there's something I have to do. So I have to stick it out and I have to pay attention to it beforehand to know, in context, what that thing is.
Sonia:But I didn't do any of those things and you still watched it.
Sam:Yeah, and this is the first time it's happened. I mean how many times have you screamed at me like this reality show you have to watch, and I love all of those things. But for some reason, when I get home, I'm going to be rewatching something I watched before for comfort.
Sonia:Comfort, absolutely. It's really hard for me to get into new things unless it's comedies. Yeah, I get it.
Sam:Just because like come on.
Sonia:But you watched it. How many times have you and I called each other unhinged?
Sam:It's our favorite word.
Sonia:It's my favorite word and I had to have you watch it because it just felt perfect for the conversations we've been having lately, the Role Brain and I sometimes it's what we're talking about that when you're in the left-hand lane you need to be going above the speed limit, because the left lane is for crime.
Sonia:Uh-huh, it's for light crime, and you and I were in the car the other day and that's what you said. And so then that night I went home and watched this movie titled Unhinged, and I thought of you, not that you're an unhinged driver, but just our conversation just in context, you know, I read.
Sam:Whenever you recommend something to me, I find myself needing to connect with you while I'm watching it to let you know that I'm watching it.
Sonia:I love the live texting.
Sam:But then, like, if it's like 9.30, 10 o'clock, I'm just like you're playing footsies with me, right?
Sonia:now. Oh, I'm sorry.
Sam:No, it's fine. It's like 9.30, 10 o'clock. I feel begs. I don't want to be messaging you when you're like family time or hangout time, but I'm just like. I'm literally you know how my living room is, so my TV's across the room, but I am standing in front of the television like my phone. Be like this man needs to get his shit together Like texting you, and then I'm looking back at my dogs. Be like do you see that, shh, I was actively participating and then cut to 15 minutes later I'm doing something else on my phone because my anxiety is too high.
Sonia:This is what you need to do. It was a roller coaster. It was a roller coaster of emotions was it, it was also a mediocre movie. Of course it was.
Sam:It's called Unhinged Come on and then like it was based maybe in like Texas or somewhere, because the license plate said Heartland but for some reason it really had a like Pacific Northwest vibe it did because it was like and everything was slightly rainy and then you're. Sometimes they passed by a company where I was like hey, that's in the industrial district. Oh yeah, when she almost ran over that lady it was a blue and white sign to start on the high or something. I was like that looks so familiar but, then everything nothing else does.
Sam:It was, the movie was very confusing.
Sonia:Thank you for watching.
Sam:And no thank you, to you suggesting it.
Sonia:Hey, if I'm gonna suffer through a movie, I also want everybody to notice ever too, so we can collectively talk about it.
Sam:I'm gonna waste my time. I'm gonna make you waste yours.
Sonia:Hey, we bond together Right Friendship by Sonia Uh-huh, do it. Okay, what did we get into today? What are we talking about? We're pulling some tarot cards today.
Sam:Yeah, let's embrace amateur tarot. Okay, let's do it?
Sonia:First of all, there are many therapists out there that use tarot as part of their clinical practice, and you and I at least I don't. I don't use it all the time, but I do have a few clients here and there that just like to pull a card. And it's not to forecast the future, it's not to help them make decisions, it's honestly. Sometimes it gives us a theme for the session or it helps give Focus intuition.
Sonia:Yeah, give clarity, give some insight, and so I think it's a great tool. I am not professionally trained, I don't have any certifications.
Sam:We're both still learning. We're still learning Tarot cards, we still reference books. We're starting to get the vibe of it.
Sonia:Yeah, but this would be a fun thing to do in our episode today.
Sam:Yeah, I wanna call out because I love this, I love it. I keep coming back to this deck. I also use modern, modern witch deck. I forget who the author, the creator is. For that. But this one's a good one that you're using today, yeah so it is the Wild Unknown by Kim Kranz, and I think that I'm drawn to this deck because it's a lot of like contrasting black and white hand-drawn images with like a lot of rainbow pox, of like watercolor.
Sonia:Oh, that's your thing.
Sam:And I love it. I love it so much, and this is the pocket version, so it's smaller than a regular deck of cards, because I don't know about you, but tarot decks tend to be too big for my hands, so actually shuffling them is really difficult for me.
Sonia:You know I struggle with the shuffle.
Sam:That's why I throw them on the ground and just mash them together sometimes. Yeah, so I love this and I don't know if you can see it on the video, if we'll show it, but doot, doot, doot, doot. I'm waving the guidebook in front of the camera, we'll link it and it comes in a cute tin.
Sonia:Yeah, it's actually a really great size.
Sam:It's always in my purse actually.
Sonia:And it's a beautiful deck.
Sam:And then I also. I also like the way the book reads and for guidance. But then there's a company on Etsy called the Wandering Moon Company and they provide like tarot reference cards. Ooh, yeah, so. I have those also because I don't believe the wild unknown doesn't cover reverses and I don't normally use reversals in my readings just because I'm starting out. But, for those that want it. This is always like on my table in my therapy office.
Sonia:Yeah, I have that saved on my desktop. It's great.
Sam:It provides, like the general meaning, so words connected to the meaning, and then upright and reverse keywords for it too. So I love that. Okay Readings, yeah, how do you want to do this?
Sonia:Let's just do one for us as a collective.
Sam:The collective, the royal, we, the royal, we it's always together. Okay. Do you want to do a three card? Sure, okay. So we want to do like the past lessons, current focus and future goals, or do we want to do something different?
Sonia:No, let's stick to what we know, okay? Comfort.
Sam:I've been shuffling, in case you're hearing a weird sound. Okay, juju, stop licking the couch.
Sonia:You know when you have a rescue dog. Oh, I was asking for Juju.
Sam:Oh, she's just laying down why do you want her?
Sonia:Oh, that's going to get her out of your way.
Sam:Oh no, she's fine. Okay, I'm just yelling at her, because that's what you would do.
Sonia:It's true, you don't want her licking.
Sam:Hey, ma'am, she like pretends like she never did it. Uh-huh. Okay, you want to cut the deck? Yes, first card.
Sonia:Ooh, one. Is it One, two, three, four, five of pentacles? Ooh.
Sam:That's a beautiful card. It's upside down, so it's a reversal. Yes, so pentacles, if I'm remembering correctly, that suit has to do with work and money.
Sonia:Because there's coins.
Sam:Let's see. Okay, you said five, five pentacles. So I also like this book because it has pictures of every card, so you know that it's the right one, and it has different spreads in it for you Pentacles. Here's ASMR of me going to the book. Okay, three, four, five. And on this card there's like I don't like it because it was like oh, rose, it's losing petals and it's drying out.
Sonia:Oh, no, yeah, and it looks like in the background there's rain and the rose is pointing down. It's like the beauty and the beast rose. It basically looks like the beauty and the beast rose. There's one petal falling off and there's one singular leaf on the stem and the stem is also pointing down.
Sam:So this is our past lessons card. So this one is five of pentacles sadness, worry and illness. The five of pentacles is a card of hard times. It may come in the form of illness, job loss, financial trouble or rejection. Above all this, there will be above all this, there we go, found it. Above all this, there will be worry, so much worry. This anxiety is counterproductive and damaging. You must find a way to quiet the mind during this difficult time. Rely on meditation or visualization to find peace.
Sonia:This was our past card okay.
Sam:Yeah, let me go to the other cards to see what's up. Yeah, and this one it's negative card of loss, especially financially Losses, bad investments, no support, ask for help. But then it was reversed when you pulled it, so that means get your shit together. I love this Regarding money cut losses, avoid more debt. Ooh, okay, that reversal got you. Huh, uh-huh. What is it saying to you?
Sonia:Well, I think, just um, If we look at the past few months, past few weeks just launching a private practice and having to negotiate a lot of personal things, professional things, making wise business decisions, that have been hard. They haven't been all easy right and we've had to sacrifice, cut some things, invest in other things. It's been difficult, yeah, really high ups and downs. Really high. It's up Whoa, really high. High is really I wouldn't say really low, lows, but we had a moment there.
Sam:There's been a couple of pits, yeah, and that's okay.
Sonia:It's a learning experience, but it has been tough.
Sam:Yeah, I mean for here. What was it? Yeah, cut your losses, avoid more debt and all of that stuff. And the other booklet is just like refocus things to get out of it, which I mean this is our past lessons card.
Sam:Right, we've only been open for four months and I feel like it's pretty connected like you said, to our experience, because we've had to reevaluate things and really come together, center and ground ourselves and make good decisions going forward, because there were times when we were panicking because it was new. And then I mean it feels like we've been open for a year, but it's only been four months, which is insane to me, time flies and goes slow at the same time, because I feel like we've met such amazing people and we've gone through it.
Sam:I'm nervous and excited for what the next? What will it look like when our first year rolls around?
Sonia:We're going to celebrate. That's what we're going to do oh yeah, we're going to celebrate With a sweatshirt.
Sam:I know I've been chopping up the bit for some hoodies with our logo on it, because we've worked so hard with everything. I mean it's just good advertising. That's a good reason to do it Of course, and I love our logo.
Sonia:How would you navigate something like this in session If a client pulled a card that I think at face value can be read pretty negatively?
Sam:It's a pretty negative card.
Sonia:How would you navigate that with a client?
Sam:It depends. Is this the only card they're pulling? Is it in a three card spread of some sort? For us, the focus for this is our past experiences and lessons from those. Maybe it's the discussion of A what does this card write off the bat mean for you? Then? Okay, knowing that, that's how you feel when you first read it then, in a different context, how does it connect to your past experiences? I also might pull up things if it's bringing up something for me that they've talked about bringing that up. If for the client it was a past lesson and they've discussed troubles with just decision-making or anything financial or big challenges, I might weave that in somehow. I also really like to leave all of that mostly to the client.
Sonia:Me too.
Sam:I don't want to assign meaning for them but I might ask guiding questions just to see if they make connections for themselves.
Sonia:I never assign meaning. I always ask how is this landing for you? Sometimes we'll pull a clarifying card if the one that they pull isn't really resonating, it's not really applicable in what's going on, or it just is one of those cards where it's like, okay, this doesn't fit, let's pull a clarifying card, even if it is a negative card. It always leaves room for conversation, which I think is beautiful.
Sam:Yeah, here's the thing we're assigning negative and positive, or?
Sonia:what Right.
Sam:Because even the darker cards can have different meanings.
Sonia:That's what I'm saying at face value. If you were to just read what it is, it can come off as negative, but it doesn't have to.
Sam:It doesn't have to get out of the trap of using that like the assigning value in that way, especially when it comes to tarot, especially in session, even for myself. I'm like looking at the picture, I'm like, oh, that's a bad quote. Unquote card. It's not.
Sonia:It's not Even for us today. I don't see it as a negative quote, unquote, negative card. I see it as look how far we have come, look at all the changes we have made, look at how much we've grown and will continue to, even through the hard times. And I'm not trying to put a positive spin on it, but it is what it is. It's a reminder of how intentional we have been with everything in the last few months, weeks, days, I don't know yeah.
Sam:I'm looking, you can't see it. I want to make sure I hold up the cards so that people can see it. We all actually post that after our. Would you rather this?
Sonia:one is present. Present focus the devil, the devil.
Sam:It's part of the majors. It's a fool's journey. Do you want to describe the card?
Sonia:The card is a goat with horns, pretty big horns that are going outwards from its body. There's a pentacle on its forehead and its feet are on fire. It looks like they're on fire At least. There are flames coming out from the bottom of the feet, going towards. It's a background. The background just looks like rain. I think all of the cards, because the other one had the same background, not all of them, some of them are different.
Sam:Oh okay, yeah, it depends. Yeah, this one, this one, it's.
Sonia:Yeah, it has a frame. This one is very, it might be exact, to the other one. Yeah, they both look like rain.
Sam:Okay, so present, focus things to keep in mind the devil. I'm reading from the Wild Unknown Book. First, again, addiction negativity. Though it may feel frightening when the devil appears in your reading, this card carries an urgent message and must be interpreted with total honesty. The darkness of the devil card takes the form of addiction, negativity or materialism. It can indicate an ugly relationship with a person or substance. Identify this dependency and how it's holding you back. The devil's hooves are strong and relentless. Their grip will not loosen unless a conscious decision is made. Free yourself.
Sonia:Okay, can I just say something? Yes, okay, this weekend I spent time with family and it was wonderful. You know, that's one of my love languages. It's how I rejuvenate and self-care for myself is to spend time with loved ones. We're talking about relationships that have gone under, losing friendships, losing connections to people that were in our lives for very long, and how hurtful that is and the need to work through that. Are we on the other side of that? Because it keeps coming up every once in a while? And a particular person came up this weekend which everybody that was present in the house this weekend has had a connection to this person that we were talking about. Just with my upbringing and my mom's culture, there is a belief that when someone is talking about you or someone keeps coming up, maybe they are thinking of you too.
Sonia:It's like your ears must be burning, but it's deeper than that. There's a shared something, energy because this person kept coming up in our conversation and come to find out that they in fact were attending an event. I don't wanna give too much. There was a reason why this person kept coming up in our conversation with family this weekend because they indeed were also connecting with a mutual.
Sam:Oh, so they were tertiary. Like it's even a word connected to your life, right, yeah?
Sonia:they were in my circle, like energy circle, and without getting too woo-woo. And when I saw the pictures I'm like, oh, okay, Life was trying to tell me something. And when you pull this card it makes me think about okay, I need to work through my hurt. I need to work through my loss and grief for this relationship and move forward. Not that it's not ever gonna be painful again, but I need to move forward.
Sam:So it rang more personal for you.
Sonia:Mm-hmm. Interesting, and it's not a negative. I think this card very clearly says negative. I don't see it as a negative. It's a reminder that you can have relationships and they can be beautiful and wonderful and loving, and those same relationships can also turn into a source of pain.
Sam:Mm-hmm.
Sonia:And sometimes you have no control over it, and whether you, you might be out of that relationship and you have no control over it, which is what I think happened for me, and I have to be able to move forward.
Sam:Yeah, and it's okay. It's kind of like taking stock of who's living rent free and seeing if they need to be evicted. Yes, but.
Sonia:I didn't even evict them, they bounced.
Sam:Well, I get your brain space Exactly, not physically.
Sonia:And I think not just brain space, but in my heart and in my world.
Sam:Yeah, Just gotta let it go.
Sonia:Gotta let it go. I'm being forced to let it go, and it's okay.
Sam:Yeah, for me I think it doesn't necessarily go to personal. For me it brought up stuff more just like for our practice, and it's not a person or a substance, it's more of just like behavioral patterns that we can become really used to. And I can't really articulate the feeling that I'm having right now connected to this card. But it also feels just like a reminder to continually take stock of what's going on and being very intentional and aware, so that, say, like you start panicking over something or you feel like you're not doing enough of something and it might cause you to act from a space of desperation or fear, and so it's kind of in that realm for me, like a reminder just to be very aware. So it's engaging with what's going on and not being reactionary. That's as best as I can articulate it right now. Do you feel like you're being reactionary?
Sam:No I feel like it's a reminder.
Sonia:Not to.
Sam:I feel that for me it's connected to the first card in that way of just continually taking stock of why we're doing what we're doing and why we're making the decisions we're making, because we analyze things pretty rationally and can take into account many aspects of decisions or reasons why we do things. But sometimes, sometimes things get embedded in us or we start rolling back from what we know what to do and start reacting and I don't like that feeling because it feels, I mean, you can't really control most anything, but that feels extra out of control, if that makes sense.
Sonia:Sam and I have an agreement. I don't know if we've ever mentioned it on the podcast, but we can't have freakouts together at the same time.
Sam:What we do, we have to bring in reinforcements in the forms of other people.
Sonia:Yeah, either I am losing my mind or she's losing her mind, but we're not doing it at the same time, because one of us has to stay grounded.
Sam:We've only collectively lost it once for a day, right.
Sonia:Maybe a couple hours.
Sam:It wasn't even a full day, it wasn't.
Sonia:But that's our agreement and it's working out pretty well so far.
Sam:Here. Before we move on to the next card, I'll read the Terra reference guide by the Wandering Moon for this too. So meaning according to them is the things that keep us bound and trapped addictions, materialism, fears, toxic relationships. Let them go and learn. And then the upright meaning, which is what we pulled, is bondage, lust, temptation, addiction, lack of willpower.
Sonia:Willpower.
Sam:I got that Houshi.
Sonia:I have it sometimes, sometimes Okay.
Sam:Last card Future goals.
Sonia:Yeah, oh, just from the top. Yes, I'm trying to do things.
Sam:Do whatever you want, whatever you call it.
Sonia:Ooh death.
Sam:What is this reading?
Sonia:Let me describe.
Sam:I actually like the death card. It's a renewal.
Sonia:Okay. Does it mean something that all the backgrounds are the same on all the cards we've pulled?
Sam:today. Here's the fun thing, and which is why it's important to pick a deck that calls to you because, yes, I feel like it sometimes does, especially if they're all similar or the same.
Sonia:They are the same. It's again raining in the background.
Sam:Yeah, and here's the thing it looks on these cards Show. Hold it up to that camera.
Sonia:Hold it up to this camera.
Sam:Or this bring it. Bring it this way. You did good. Okay, it's out of focus. Take it down now. Okay.
Sonia:Wow feisty.
Sam:And I mean we can link to the deck and everything, but it looks like old school TV snow. Yes, it's chaos. Yes, and here's the thing is, when there's a lot of rain, like on your windshields, right Hard to see. Yep, if you don't wipe it away, you can't really see clearly. It's funny. It's kind of reminding me of like this weird metaphor exercise and acceptance of commitment therapy about being able to see clearly. But that is what that looks like for me it is chaos and it is.
Sonia:But this much of downpour could also mean I always. You know we can complain a lot about the rain in Washington. Right, we are known for the rain and how wet it is here. However, sometimes we need the rain.
Sonia:We need it for things to grow Refreshing it cleanses Right our plants, our flowers need it, right Things, that animals that flourish in that kind of climate like they need it. So for me sometimes it's like yeah, okay, it sucks to drive in the rain, or I'm wet and my dog doesn't like to be in the rain.
Sam:It's like a cleansing thing.
Sonia:It's a cleansing, it's a refresh, it's a renewal.
Sam:Is that the vibe you're getting from the background of these cards?
Sonia:I think, because we've pulled every card and it's been in the background. I'm getting that More than that Death is that. Yeah.
Sam:It's a new beginning, it's a renewal.
Sonia:Yeah, and the card itself. It looks like the skeleton of a bird. No, I don't think it's a chicken.
Sam:Oh yeah, it's some sort of flying bird. You know what's funny? I opened the book right to it. Oh, perfect, great.
Sonia:And this bird. It's the skeleton of it, but it has some feathers remaining on its wings.
Sam:It's like the quills are left and only some of the feathery feather parts are left.
Sonia:But it's alive. Its eyes are open. You're seeing it alive. I'm seeing it as alive.
Sam:Cause? That could just be the absence of eyes.
Sonia:Could be, but I'm choosing to see it as alive.
Sam:Well, I mean, it is like suspended in the middle of the card. It's not laying on the ground.
Sonia:Well, we don't know that it's laying on the ground.
Sam:This could be a bird's eye view right With the range, just the ground. What's happening?
Sonia:Right, but I also see it as in air.
Sam:Okay, yeah, future for us. I'm first reading from the Wild Unknown Pocket Book Closer. That was the wrong word Closure, closure, transformation. No one loves the side of the death card in a reading. I actually do. We spend most of our lives denying death altogether, so when this card appears it's easy to get frightened or think it's quote unquote bad. Don't let the drama distract you from the message. Something in your life needs to end, it needs closure. Sonia, this will happen, voluntarily or involuntarily. Either way, you will feel a positive transformation begin after the initial forms of suffering have passed. And then let's see here In the Wondering Moon Tarot reference guide, the end of a cycle and the need to mourn it. I think that's the important part the mourning process Release what is no longer serving and surrender. A new beginning approaches. And then did you pull it upright or reverse? Upright Ending and beginnings, transforming new ways, new habits change.
Sonia:Change is good. Change is scary sometimes, but change can be really really good and necessary, how you feel Okay, I'm like business stuff.
Sam:I mean personally. Here's the thing is, personally it's not bringing up anything specific for me, but I love it, like whatever it is. I'm just not aware of it yet. So bring it on. I guess I'll head it off at the pass if I can, but probably not. That's also scary. If it's not known how to like that, that's okay. Moving on For business stuff, it's just like. I mean, so it's now. We tried to record yesterday on Halloweeny but that didn't work.
Sam:So it's November 1st, so we are encroaching upon the end of the year, and so that in of itself is a temporal renewal for our calendar. I don't know Like. I feel like my answers have been very ambiguous. Except for the first card today, they've been vibes. Let me ponder it on more. What does it mean for you?
Sonia:For me, like you said, the end of the year always brings a lot of reflection and I don't really see it as like, oh, what do I need to do next year. It's just more practicing gratitude for what has happened this year, and I think I have to constantly remind myself big, huge things have happened for us this year. We were in internship. We were still in grad school at the beginning of the year for the first quarter of this year. Since then we have graduated, we started a private practice. We left our internship sites. We've carried over some clients. I left my favorite job, you left your favorite job that. You were there for how long? Five years, that's a long time and you loved the work and you made some really deep connections there. And again we rented out commercial space. We've never done that before. I haven't no Five. We've already gone through a lot of transformation.
Sonia:A lot of transformation, and the year is not even over yet.
Sam:Maybe that's why I'm like unbothered over here about it, because this whole year has been changed Constantly. So like oh, another transformation. That may be good or bad, or maybe hard.
Sonia:Okay, it's literally every month I feel like something big has happened, or at least it feels like it. Every season something has happened, and we haven't even reached winter yet. No Exciting In a few weeks. In a few weeks, cool. So just I actually Hold on to your seat and let's move forward.
Sam:Yeah, this feels like actually with the three cards that we got, because there are more like. There are cards of shaking things up, there's cards of movement Change, there are cards of transformation, there are cards of letting things go. It's essentially just like walking out of your house and walking away and just shaking it all off. So these are big, big energy cards for me. I've never had a reading like this that had these cards. Are these vibes of cards? So it's really interesting. All I'm on is also more of a combined reading, but yeah.
Sonia:With your grief work. I think I'm pretty hesitant to say, when someone is coming in for grief work or they're navigating through mourning and grief and loss, to say the things that these cards have said to us today Let it go, move forward, changes coming, because those are things that are hard to say to someone who's experiencing loss. But how do you communicate that when someone does need to keep moving forward? Right, we've talked about grief. You can't just, you won't erase grief, you just make space for it right.
Sonia:In your life, but how do you move forward?
Sam:You have little choice sometimes. I don't know how that really sounds. That's the first thing that's coming up for me, the phrase letting it go. For me it brings like this visual of literally like, just like dropping a bag full of all your shit and walking away. But that's not really what that means. It's processing and being attentive to what's not helping serving there anymore right and grieving it and slowly being okay with the fact that that's happening and not even okay, but just it's accepting. It's accepting the fact that you don't, there's nothing you can really do about it and there's no timeline. No, it's all those cliches. You know it's moving on, it's letting go, it's all of that stuff.
Sam:But and I use visuals a lot and I'm gonna go back to the backpack one, and in session I use a lot that as we move through life, we're born with a little cute little pack, right, and as we move through life, we put rocks in it, we collect things, we put them in there, and if you hold on to too much stuff that's not serving you, the bag gets too heavy, and so you are still trying to move forward, but then you have this like two ton pack behind you that feels immovable. So then, what do we do? We start taking things out and asking if we really need it in the bag anymore, if it's serving us, if it's bringing us comfort, like, is it moving towards what you want in life or is it holding you back from what you want In grief, especially early grief, and even down the line, because early grief is literally whatever you feel, like it's still fresh to you that can be a year or two, it could be a month or two.
Sam:Sometimes the job is just to be in it. Yeah, it's the expectations and the shoulds that you put on yourself that can lead to extended suffering or increased suffering, and also you get that externally from other people too. So giving it to yourself too is just doing a double whammy. That's why it's so nuanced, because there doesn't necessarily have to be letting go or moving forward unless you feel like it's the time for you to do that. And that's not meaning that you're done with your grief. It just means that it's lighter to carry. It transforms, yeah, and sometimes somebody's gonna walk right by you and put more shit in your bag.
Sonia:Yeah.
Sam:And you're gonna feel like you're right there and movable again and that's okay. But just really recognizing that that's just where you are right now and then figuring out what you can do best to serve yourself and care for yourself in that moment until the bag feels lighter again or until you feel ready to move through things in the bag. Any of that answers your question or made sense.
Sonia:It does.
Sam:Yes.
Sonia:Yes, great. You're welcome, but sometimes, you know, I think that those are the, these are the conversations we can have outside of our clinical work. When a friend is like coming to you for something, with a friend that I have really good, like solid relationship with, I can say let it go. This is one thing you got to let it go. Not grief, oh my gosh. Not grief or loss, but like sometimes, girl, you got to let it go.
Sam:Like. What support do you need?
Sonia:to like drop not this, but put it down for a while even.
Sam:Yeah, mm-hmm, I don't think I would ever say that to a client. But you know, there's a difference between our personal lives and then the work that we do well, my, my clinical room is no place for the shoulds and you have to, kind of, because if you, if you want to come in here and you don't feel like doing that work, don't do it.
Sonia:Mm-hmm.
Sam:You want to spend an hour with me while we vibe and you cry great yeah mm-hmm, because that's not there's. Unfortunately there's not a lot of space for that. Mm-hmm out in our culture.
Sonia:Yeah, also, I feel like and I wanted to talk to you about this, I think I mentioned it the other day but the need that we, a lot of us, have to turn Negatives into positives, right, this feels uncomfortable, so, like, let's look at the bright side. So I don't feel uncomfortable anymore. Right, I can't support this person through their negativity anymore. Everything is negative, everything is like a dark cloud. Let's focus on the positive. And For me, going through grad school, learning and being trained in the work that we do, I see how problematic that can be To go to someone and say, hey, but look at the bright side. At least you didn't. Da da, da da.
Sonia:Sometimes there's no bright side. There is no bright side sometimes. Sometimes you just have to sit with it. Yeah, that's life You're, you're stressed out, you're Hungry, you haven't slept, you're in pain, physical, emotional. Sometimes there is no bright side, mm-hmm. Sometimes there is no. At least this didn't know. It all sucks right now.
Sam:Yeah, I mean there could be other things going on too, but if somebody is repeatedly complaining about the same thing or struggling with the same thing, quite often they're just begging for somebody to recognize their pain. Yes, they're just transforming it. And in most things in life when someone says, hey, this, I'm going through this and it really sucks, the worst thing sometimes you can do is problem-solve.
Sam:Or what not, unless that's what they're looking for, and that's why the clear communication comes in Like are you looking for a space to hold this or do you want, like ideas for how to solve it? Sometimes, in a lot of areas, the most impactful thing that somebody can do is see the person yes and just, yeah, that Sucks. Yeah, I am really sorry you're going through that. Do you want to tell me more Mm-hmm? That's, that's it.
Sam:Yeah, people just want to be seen and heard and listen to and validated because a lot of people and it's just our nature to, you know, listen to talk, or listen to respond, or then want to be the helper and want to jump in, and sometimes you just need to Sit in with it.
Sam:It's a skill. There is times when, no matter what you do, the person is still Repeating and still having issues and that's gonna happen. But it's kind of like navigating that for yourself, like, okay, how much of this can I actually sit in with you and, being a clear communicator, I see you're continually struggling with the same thing. I've offered a, b and C and I don't feel like I can really help and it feels this way in this way for me. How was it feeling for you and opening up that line of communication? Just be like, I see that you're struggling. I don't feel like I can do anything for you. Yeah, what else can we do?
Sonia:Who else can you talk to get?
Sam:outside support. Yeah, and it might be other layers of other short turns. It's rarely one thing, it's never one thing, it's never.
Sonia:Don't like to use absolutes, but yeah, it's another one thing, yeah, well, we're complex beings.
Sam:Yeah, my leg is asleep, as is Juju.
Sonia:It's time for us to go. Well, this was fun.
Sam:Oh my god, oh look at the belly I'm gonna pick. She's mad Camera. Look at that cute. Look at her Look at that cute.
Sonia:Look at her. Look at her. She's a very cute dog.
Sam:She's so mad right now, yeah she didn't stand when I put her down, she just melted.
Sonia:Okay. Well, thanks so much for joining us today. Hope you learned something. Get out of here. Bye, this is mental break it down.
Sam:Bye. Mental Break it Down is produced and edited by Sam and Sonia. Our logo was created by the amazing art of Andoi. If you have any questions, comments or have a topic you want discussed on the podcast, email us at mentalbreakitdowncom or connect with us on Instagram at mental break it down. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Nothing said in this podcast constitutes personal or professional consultation, therapy, diagnosis or creates a council client relationship. It is not intended to provide medical or mental health advice. The views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests are theirs alone. Thanks for listening. Bye.