Triathalons and Parent Child Interaction Therapy with Liz Jacobs, LMHCA

This episode was originally recorded back in September 2023. Ever struggled to juggle the balls of career, passion, and self-care? We're here to tell you that you're not alone. Join us as we sit down with Liz, a mental health therapist who made the leap from corporate marketing to counseling, and still manages to find time for her passion - triathlons. Liz's journey of resilience, dedication, and the human spirit will inspire you and remind you of the importance of doing what you love.

Next, we delve into the fascinating world of parent-child interaction therapy. Liz shares her experience with this transformative therapy approach designed to address trauma and improve behavior in children. We chew over the vital role parents play, how it equips them with key skills for positive interactions, and the significant impact it can have on reducing negative behavior. It's all about strengthening that parent-child bond, and Liz is here to guide us through it.

Finally, we zoom in on Liz's double identity as a therapist and triathlete, and the unique challenges it brings. Listen up as she shares both laughter and tears - how she copes with the emotional intensity of her work by hitting the pavement or the bike trail, her love for fantasy football, and her ongoing battle with cookie baking. We round things off with insights into the intricacies of working with teenagers in therapy, and how social media shapes their understanding of mental health. Buckle up for an episode filled with insights, anecdotes, and practical wisdom - it's one you won't want to miss!

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Transcript

Sam: 0:00

Welcome to Mental Break it Down, a podcast for therapists and the therapy curious, where we dig into all things mental health and mental health adjacent. We're so happy you're here, let's jump in.

Sonia: 0:11

Hello. Hi. I'm Sonia, I'm Sam, I'm Liz. Welcome to Mental Break it Down.

Liz: 0:18

Thanks so much for being here today. So excited to be here.

Sam: 0:21

We're excited to have you. We went to grad school together and we love an excuse to see you.

Liz: 0:26

I love an excuse to see you guys.

Sonia: 0:28

Tell us why you're in town.

Liz: 0:33

Because you know you do things.

Sonia: 0:34

You do things.

Liz: 0:36

Because I'm like I need to swim a mile. I need to bike 56 miles, and then I need to run a half marathon with a bunch of other people.

Sonia: 0:43

I mean why not? A friend is a triathlete, so amazing. Yeah, it's fun. You do a lot, I do a lot of triathlons.

Sam: 0:50

I do, I love them and we sometimes are at the finish line waiting with snacks, with snacks.

Liz: 0:57

While I'm just like I'm sweaty. That's the thing about a triathlon is at the end you've been in a lake, you've been on a bike, so like you've had dirt kicked on to you and then you ran, so you're like sweaty, leaky, dirty, and then the nutrition you're eating is like sugar, so like you're just kind of a hot mess of a human. Like it's pretty nasty at the end, but also amazing. It is. It's the best, it's my favorite thing in the world.

Sonia: 1:21

I'm so glad you picked that up. You started doing that during grad school.

Liz: 1:25

Okay, yeah, I signed up for the Cortalene Half Iron man in October of 2021. And here you are here.

Sam: 1:31

I am and.

Liz: 1:32

I did it in June of 2022. And then I was like I got to keep doing more of these. They're so fun.

Sonia: 1:38

Look at our Liz. Okay, let's start out with just telling us about you. Who are you, liz? Who am I? Friend, therapist, amazing.

Sam: 1:50

Liz's favorite thing.

Sonia: 1:51

Trying to do a bio.

Liz: 1:52

Yes, that stresses me out. I was trying to do my bio on LinkedIn and they're like have you do a headline or whatever? And it's supposed to be short. I'm like what do I put? Like? I have more than a bunch of like adjectives.

Sam: 2:04

Okay, no, you're not.

Liz: 2:05

None of the internet.

Sam: 2:06

Not on the internet.

Liz: 2:08

You are a handful of nouns, that's it.

Sonia: 2:12

You are so much, much more, but really 100 characters or less. Who are you, Liz?

Liz: 2:19

Five words Go. My name's Liz. I'm a mental health therapist, LMHCA. I'm an associate. I graduated in December of 2022. Graduated a little early because one of our other friends, Isabel, was like I'm going to graduate early and I said I will copy you, let's go.

Sonia: 2:35

I love it.

Liz: 2:37

And then I work in community mental health in Spokane, washington, and yeah, it's kind of. I took a little career change. I worked in corporate marketing after I graduated with my undergrad and then swapped careers in what was that right after COVID.

Sonia: 2:54

Or during COVID. Yeah, during COVID. Yeah, our grad program was during pandemic Yep.

Liz: 3:00

But I had made the decision before the pandemic. Okay.

Sonia: 3:03

But it just kind of coincided. And what made you make that decision?

Liz: 3:07

I think the short answer is I looked at where my career would be going if I stayed in corporate marketing and all of the different avenues and I was excited about none of them. And I was like I'm too young to not be excited about where my career is going and then spent a lot of time being like I think I want to be a counselor, talking to people about it, and then finally people started saying you've been talking about this for a year, you need to just do it. So I did.

Sam: 3:31

I'm so glad you did Me too. How has it been for you since graduation?

Liz: 3:36

It's been the best. Yeah, well, guys, I see you now want to take on a job like this.

Liz: 3:39

Um, I was, I was, so I, during grad school, I was doing freelance marketing, um, and I was just working a lot and life felt so busy and it felt so scattered, like, I think, anyone who's made a career transition it's at least for me. There was like a year to year and a half that felt like I wasn't, I had my feet in two different worlds, um, so it's felt so good to just fully be immersed in being a counselor and I love where I work and I love my clients and that's so good.

Sonia: 4:07

I do remember you working full time. Were you still full time during grad school?

Liz: 4:12

It was like it was weird. I worked at a gym checking people in that's right and then I worked freelance and I did that like between 10 and 30 hours a week. Towards the end of my program it was more like 10 hours a week. Yeah, during one busy period I was working more and I freelance for two different companies.

Sonia: 4:30

How was busy. It was juggling a lot, you were doing too much Correct and now you're just doing this. You're just a therapist and not just a therapist but you're focused.

Liz: 4:41

Yeah, your focus is that that's my only income source. Is I have one place for it?

Sonia: 4:45

Yeah, but that's your focus and, like you said, you love it. You're you're loving the work and you're loving the clients.

Liz: 4:51

I'm so happy for you, I know for you guys this office is incredible. Oh very sweet. I'm like. I want you to come decorate my office.

Sam: 4:59

We would love to. It'll just be a whole bunch of screaming in Amazon orders, please, please, my office is really sad.

Liz: 5:06

It's very bad. No, is it just beige? What is it?

Sonia: 5:09

Well, I'm just not a good decorator.

Liz: 5:12

So the things hung up on the wall are haphazard, and then I work with kids, so I have like beads on the floor and I have like balloons in the corner, and then I have, like it's just and like you know, a little girl the other day put marker on one of my pillows and she's like I'm so sorry and I was like I literally don't care, don't care to you Draw on the walls, I don't care, like it's fine, so let's talk about your work.

Sonia: 5:33

Tell us about your work. Tell us about your work and in community, mental health. Yeah, who do you work with? What's your focus?

Liz: 5:40

So I work in community mental health. That's where I interned and then I stayed after I interned. So I work with children and adults, but we specialize in children. That's kind of like our main focus children and adolescents. So most of my caseload is kids, which when you're working with kids, you're working a lot with parents.

Sonia: 5:57

Yes.

Liz: 5:59

And then adolescents, and then I have a handful of adults on my caseload as well who are wonderful and we specialize. So it's community mental health and we really work with a lot of trauma, but we also see like depression and anxiety, and then we do a lot of parent coaching. So we do this therapy called parent child interaction therapy that I'm getting trained in and then I don't do as much of this work, but our agency is known for working with problematic sexualized behaviors, so I do a little bit of that here and there and it's nice to have that expertise in the building. Yeah, tell us a little bit about what you do. What was it? Parent child, parent child interaction therapy.

Sam: 6:37

Yeah, what is?

Liz: 6:38

that it's so cool, tell us, I'm so excited to tell you so again when I was in grad school I was like I'm not going to work with kids. And actually when I started interning I was like how do I talk to children?

Liz: 6:53

They don't really teach you that You're like what's up, bro, unless that's your focus? Yeah, literally. And I'm like, even now with my kids, and luckily the kid clients I have can call me out, but sometimes they'll use two big words. I'm like do you know that word? And they're like no. Or one time a kid goes, do you think I'm an adult? And I'm like I'm so sorry.

Sam: 7:13

That's what I do. Respect about kids. They'll really tell you when you're not doing a good job at something.

Liz: 7:17

Oh I, love working with kids.

Liz: 7:19

They're so fun. But parent child interaction therapy I got to shadow a lot of it and I really learned a lot about how to interact with kids through that therapy. But it's a therapy that's working on behavior and it's also a trauma intervention. So it works on behavior in children, but it also works as a intervention for kids who are undergoing or have undergone trauma and I don't think I've had a word this, but it's a lot of parent training. So it's divided into two sections and the first section of PCIT is all about the parent building a positive relationship with their kid, which is so cool to see, and we teach them the skills of how to interact with their kid, build confidence with their kid and have special bonding time with their kid. And then, after they learn that, we go into this room and there is a one-way mirror and the parent and the kid play and then the therapist goes behind the mirror and there's a like the parent has a earpiece and we coach them Interesting and we coach them on how to play with their kid.

Sam: 8:22

So it's really like skills building for the parents. So I really appreciate this because I'm not sure if either of you have experienced this we get the really involved parents that are very supportive, but on the other end of that we get the my kid has a problem, fix it. And we're like okay, guess what? You actually need therapy also. You need therapy together and just learning how each other works and how to support your kiddo. So this is built into this theory.

Liz: 8:47

It's so cool and you're exactly right. Yeah, especially with kids is like 50 minutes a week is not going to do. I mean, there's like trauma therapies that we do with kids, where 50 minutes a week is like a lot. Yeah, like me not making a kid talking about a traumatic experience for 50 minutes. Yeah, I mean, it's usually never 50, but that's a lot, it is, it's intense.

Sonia: 9:07

Oh, so intense.

Liz: 9:08

Yeah, and you know, the nice thing about PCIT too is like the model works, not only because of the live coaching, but we ask the parents every day that they're not in counseling to do five minutes of we call it special playtime with their kid, so and we can tell. If we have them bring in a homework sheet of saying what, how long did you do it, what toys did you use? And we're constantly giving them a survey to see if the behavior is going down. Which is amazing that we see the kids behavior go down just with the positive parenting. And that's before we even move into the consequence like sequence where we're teaching parents how to give your kids good commands, how to react when your kids don't listen to your commands. Before we even get into that, behaviors go down because kids are getting that attention. They're learning oh, I can get attention through these positive ways and parents are reinforcing I will give you attention through these positive avenues and they're reducing giving attention for negative behavior. It's so cool.

Sam: 10:07

So just from the parents spending time with the kiddos, the negative behavior is being decreased.

Liz: 10:12

I would say parents spending time and then using the skills. So and the skills include things like active ignoring if your kid is, if your kid's going, instead of being like stop that, put your tongue in your mouth.

Sam: 10:23

Ignore it.

Liz: 10:24

Right, like just let them do it. They're looking for something and even saying stop, that is giving them some level of attention.

Sam: 10:34

It's reinforcing the negative behavior, even though you don't know that you're doing that.

Sonia: 10:37

Yeah, how cool. So just so I understand you, it's therapy for both child and parent together, and then also training, and is there ever individual sessions?

Liz: 10:50

Yeah, so when we teach the parents the skill, we do a parent coach session. So there are at least two parent coach sessions one upfront, of like we're teaching you that it's called CDI, Child Directed Intervention Teaching you how to like. I think the skills are like reflecting what your kid is saying, describing what they're saying, praising them and just engaging with them and enjoying with them, and then not giving them commands, not doing any criticism, not asking any questions I mean a few, but ideally you're just letting them lead the play. So we coach for that. Then, once they reach mastery on that, then we coach for the parent directed intervention and that's like, okay, how do you give an effective command to your kid? And then, okay, if your kid doesn't listen to the command, what's the chain of reactions that lead to a consequence for your kid?

Sonia: 11:38

that you know, these just sound like good parenting skills.

Sam: 11:43

Yeah, it's cool. I love bringing the parents into the therapy space, because individual therapy is it doesn't it's not to say this like you know tackles the system of the family because it's not everybody involved. But bringing the parents in is so effective because you're a kiddo, right, you don't have a lot of autonomy and control about how other people treat you or what your home life is. So doing therapy and then sending kiddo back into that system that's. It's so slow going, if going at all sometimes, which is frustrating for kiddo parents and therapist. I'm really excited about this and it works.

Sonia: 12:19

Yeah, you're seeing it. You're seeing it with your clients. How long is the training? I don't know.

Sam: 12:24

You're just in it. I'll just, somebody will tell me when it's done. Correct, perfect Okay.

Liz: 12:32

Who knows this about me. No, I love it. I'm like you tomorrow, Cool.

Sonia: 12:38

I love that. You can just pivot and you're flexible and you know what Rigidity. Let's throw it off the window, it's fine.

Liz: 12:45

That could be my bio Rigidity. Let's throw it off the window who needs it?

Sam: 12:51

I know I appreciate your like go with the flow attitude on so many things, because that's not how I roll in so many things and it hurts my brain sometimes, so good job for you.

Liz: 13:01

You have all like. All of the successfulness is from like having systems and thinking them through. I think it's so impressive.

Sam: 13:07

She believes a facade. We've done it correctly.

Sonia: 13:10

We're scamming.

Liz: 13:11

It's the art in the front room.

Sonia: 13:12

Yes.

Liz: 13:14

How much did you pay for this?

Sam: 13:16

Nobody's like we made it. We made it in the backyard with essentially pancake batter and it got all over Sam's dog I was like oh no, is your dog huge? Papilla must shake. Yeah, they both are. He was very interested in what we were doing and it smelled delicious.

Sonia: 13:32

He's like yes, yeah, let me get in his way, we are off the rails on this podcast episode and I'm here for it. I'm here for it.

Sam: 13:41

Leave it to her to always ruin her fun and bring us back.

Sonia: 13:44

Someone's got to keep us in line, whatever it's ours.

Sam: 13:47

We can do what we want.

Sonia: 13:49

Okay, Liz, out of grad school, you're full-time therapist. What has been the most surprising part of all of this being a therapist?

Sam: 14:01

Yeah, because just living a human life as also a therapist.

Sonia: 14:05

Let's talk about that. What is it like to be Liz Jacobs, and also a therapist and a triathlete and just overall hot girl, you know?

Liz: 14:14

I just do it, it comes so naturally.

Sam: 14:18

I don't even notice, I'm doing it. I just roll out of bed and it's just fire.

Sonia: 14:22

And just like into my hot girl shit.

Liz: 14:24

Yeah, I'm going to hype you up all the time. You should just see the chaos. I had to bring cookies to work the other day and I'm like coming off the fire escape. Half the cookies fall off the fire escape. Why were you on a fire escape? That's how I leave my apartment.

Sonia: 14:37

Okay.

Sam: 14:40

Was there a fire?

Liz: 14:41

Did your friend door not work? No, it's faster, it's very unbrand for you.

Sonia: 14:45

Yes, I'm here for it. Okay, accepted.

Liz: 14:48

I feel kind of cool like watching on the fire. But you dropped all the cookies, half of them, okay, and they weren't that good either. It was pretty sad. I was like I'm not like baker, like the girl, like the cute therapist was like I'm gonna bring cookies to work. That's not my brand.

Sam: 15:00

What is your brand? Oh no, my mediocre cookies. Oh no, mediocre cookies. Oh no, my mediocre cookies. They're on the ground now, bummer. Well, there's less people that won't be disappointed in us, thank goodness I was like less people to not eat them.

Liz: 15:16

Oh no, Then why? Bring cookies Wait because I okay, it's a whole thing.

Sonia: 15:22

Let's get into it, get into it.

Liz: 15:24

My coworker does fantasy football as a team bonding thing. Oh okay, and I hate football.

Sonia: 15:30

Same.

Liz: 15:32

But, I love this coworker and he was like you should do this because team bonding is because team bonding. And I said okay, and I lost the first week, and if you lose then you have to bring cookies. So I was like not only am I playing fantasy football and not only did I lose a fantasy football, but now I have to bring mediocre cookies.

Sam: 15:48

Well, what's your price for freedom from this mediocre cookies? No, we have to keep playing. You have to keep playing Every week. Oh, okay, see how much I understand about that, but that's what I mean.

Liz: 15:59

I could have to bring cookies every week if my team sucks, which I picked based off of the names.

Sam: 16:03

Well, yeah, on brand. Do they look cute in their uniform? Are they funny? Do I like the colors?

Liz: 16:09

of the uniform, do they love?

Sam: 16:11

their mom.

Liz: 16:11

Yes, yeah, what are their hobbies?

Sam: 16:13

Do they have talks? It's like a dating service, but you're just picking them to play some sort of game. You don't understand.

Liz: 16:19

I'm out here bringing snacks every week to work, because I keep losing. Can you just buy Oreos? That's what I'm doing next time, because I'm a publisher.

Sonia: 16:28

Yeah don't go, I'm outsourcing next time. Yeah, don't do that to yourself. And if you drop them off the fire escape, they'll still be in the package.

Sam: 16:36

You know what Next time you go by them just buy like seven packets.

Liz: 16:39

Yes, and then I can just like throw them out.

Sam: 16:41

You can just leave them at the office and just go like here.

Liz: 16:43

I'm like I'm probably going to lose. Here you go and they're like yes, correct.

Sam: 16:46

If I just give you seven things of Oreos, can I not do this Because you're an adult and you can go? No, thank you. Wait, how many weeks do you have to be in this? Are you shocked that? I don't know. It's the whole season. How many weeks? I believe it's the whole football season into January Didn't it just start. No, football goes that long. Yeah, because the Super Bowl is always in February. I thought it was in November.

Liz: 17:06

Man.

Sam: 17:07

No, there's just big games during Thanksgiving. Is that what you're thinking? Yes, she thought the Super Bowl happens in.

Liz: 17:13

January, february, your money totally does. Yeah, you're screwed girl, I'm super screwed.

Sam: 17:18

I hope you didn't want to enjoy your fall and winter because you're not going to.

Sonia: 17:21

I'm not going to now it's over Cuffing season, you're just cuffed to football Pretty much.

Sam: 17:27

Yes.

Sonia: 17:28

Oh no, you did not know what you signed up for Our condolences for your first bun. Also three therapists trying to figure out football is hilarious. None of us know.

Sam: 17:38

No, I have no idea. Everybody in our lives that loves football is just collectively rolling their eyes.

Liz: 17:42

Oh, for sure.

Sam: 17:43

I don't care, let them roll their eyes.

Sonia: 17:46

Hair flip, flip that brain. Ok, what was the original question? What is my life like? Yes, what is your life like as a therapist and a triathlete?

Sam: 17:58

Sonia has to always keep everybody on track.

Sonia: 18:00

I forgot the question.

Sam: 18:02

She was actually asking you what the question was. Yeah, beautifully done.

Liz: 18:07

Lovely.

Sam: 18:08

Yeah, you know how I do.

Sonia: 18:11

So anyway.

Liz: 18:12

Keeping people on track.

Sonia: 18:14

I'm always, you know, do it to it.

Sam: 18:16

Fun police.

Liz: 18:20

It's been good. I was actually talking to someone about this the other day. I really try not to have my entire identity be a therapist. Yeah, you know, it's not like I am Liz and I'm a mental health clinician.

Sam: 18:32

It's that I am. Whatever you say after that, you have to be in its period and in its statement it's too much.

Liz: 18:39

But I mean, I love it is a part of my identity, like I love my clients. I love my work. I love my job and sometimes my job stresses me out and sometimes my job drains me and, yeah, I get tired and sad and like emotionally overwhelmed. So I'm super thankful for triathlon stuff. It's great to like go for a run or like bike rides. Bike rides are magical. I think they heal my soul in weird ways.

Sonia: 19:03

How? Why is that weird? I think that's wonderful. It's just you get bugs in your teeth and it's amazing.

Liz: 19:09

Yeah, I mean running too. I get a lot of bugs in my face when I run.

Sonia: 19:13

But it's, do you feel like it helps you kind of wash the heaviness of the work sometimes and it cleanses OK?

Liz: 19:21

Yeah, and it's time for my brain to kind of be suspended, if that makes sense.

Liz: 19:25

It does, it, does, yeah and it's. I mean, I don't really the only discipline I listen to music on is running, but so for the most part, like swimming and biking are pretty quiet, yeah, and running I can listen to music. That I feel. That makes me feel good, so I love. I do love training in that Like it's a time for myself. It's usually like either time alone or with other triathletes, and the great thing about other triathletes is we can talk for an hour and not once do we talk about something serious?

Liz: 19:52

or deep or introspective. We talk about heart rates and, yeah, like components and I'm like this is great.

Sam: 19:59

It's something other than what you do for a job that's really heavy. Yeah, so I'm able to let that goes really important.

Liz: 20:05

I'm glad you found a way. Oh yeah, absolutely, and like bonding over, something like kind of silly, so I enjoy that.

Sonia: 20:12

How is being a triathlete silly? I feel like that would take every ounce of my energy to even do that.

Sam: 20:19

Maybe that's the point, that that's silly. I love it.

Sonia: 20:22

I love it. Well, we say that right To clients all the time self-care, Do what feeds your soul, Do what nourishes you Physical activity. Physical activity whatever it is. Maybe for some people it's just stretching or taking a walk, walks, and for you it's running, biking, swimming, and you are modeling that for your clients. We have to be able to do what we are recommending to our clients, thank you.

Sam: 20:46

Yeah, yeah, I started thinking. I was like oh, I wonder if this ever considered doing like nature-based therapy. But then it's also bringing the thing you're getting away from into your own personal space too.

Liz: 20:58

I have thought about that like, especially with teens. Yeah, I am very aware of like, so I thought a lot about like teens and eating disorders too, and I would love to like or just like hyper exercise, to like look a certain way, just because I feel bad for teens, because, like, the internet is just a tick tock. I'm like everyone on there, like I just hate how many teens talk about how their bodies and how they talk about their bodies. So I was like it'd be cool to do like self care through exercise in a way that's affirming I don't know.

Sonia: 21:29

It's definitely a delicate balance and not that I think teenagers. It's not that they haven't been concerned about how they look, and I feel like that's since the beginning, but right now it's everywhere.

Sam: 21:41

It's just, it's always in your face, like people always have access to you. There's no break.

Sonia: 21:47

And just access to plastic surgery, and great if that makes you feel better and your parents are signing off on it like do you? But it is everywhere. You cannot get away from it as a teenager. It feels like right now.

Sam: 21:59

And when you're at an age where you're still developing your critical thinking skills, it's sometimes hard to tell like real from fake stuff, because you just believe it. You're like, oh, I don't know any better perhaps. And so you see these very carefully curated lives on social media. You're like, oh, that is reality. I have to aspire to that. That's not what I live in. And so there's this constant pressure.

Sonia: 22:20

Do you find yourself working mostly with teens?

Liz: 22:25

So lately it's been more kids because I'm getting turned into PCIT and adults, but I have a handful of teens. I love working with teens, do you really? Yeah, they're great.

Sonia: 22:32

They're so fun. What's great about it? Tell us more, because I don't work with teens.

Liz: 22:38

I'm adults only. Yeah, I love that You're so and you would be like to be your client. Oh, you're nice.

Sam: 22:44

Do you work with teens? I did an internship. Yeah, my first ever client was a teen, I think. I remember that. Yeah, did you like it? I did. I liked working with teens. They're funny, they're hilarious, yeah, and they don't mean to be. I just I'm always in awe and I think even of myself growing up. You think of like, yeah, growing up is hard right, because you're learning A what it actually means to be a person. And then when you get in your teen years, you're applying that, while your brain's like, hey, you know what you hate now your whole family, because you have to differentiate yourself and start your independence and what that means for you. And it's just learning to be a person is really difficult. And so if you can bring like almost some anti energy into it and normalize the fact that this is really hard and some people don't understand, like that, how helpful, I just thought like what would I have needed as a teen, like if I was going through this certain situation?

Liz: 23:35

I love that so cool, it's so true. It's like you're this moment as a teen reset and like I hate my family and I need all of my peers to accept me Now.

Sam: 23:43

Yeah my peers and, the most important thing, my family sucks and if you talk to me, I swear to God, scream, because you're feeling all of the hormones and feelings all at once, which is very natural. I have a lot of compassion for it. I'm just like you can scream. That's fine, I'll be over here, like with my nieces and nephews. I'm like you're okay, I'm going to go get a snack. Let me know whenever this is over.

Liz: 24:02

You keep screaming. I'm a really great aunt, that's honestly what you should do, yeah, active ignoring.

Sam: 24:07

Whole circle. Oh my God, you guys are winning. I'm really good at this, naturally. Do you see it? No, it's good, I love it.

Liz: 24:13

You actually actively ignore all my bad behaviors You're so Actively encourage. Thank you. No, I like working with teens. What I like working about with teens, I don't know, they're just fun, yeah you don't need a single thing.

Liz: 24:34

They just kind of come in and like I don't know, and everyone is different too.

Liz: 24:38

Like teen boys, you know, the handful of teen boys I work with are like it's a different approach than, like you know, teen girls, or like teen non-binary clients, and like everyone has their own like struggle and like everyone experiences high school so differently.

Liz: 24:51

Right, you know, like I have, you know, a handful of teens and every single one of them has a vastly different high school experience and like different hobbies, or different non-hobbies, or different like dynamics with their parents or not parents, like some some teens don't have like their biological parents they might be living with like an aunt or an uncle or whatever. So, and every one of them is different. And I think the thing I like about that age group is there's a lot of like hope and excitement, yeah, and the thing I struggle with is when I don't like a client is a teen and is experiencing depression, it's like, oh, like it all feels blah, yeah, and this is the time when you start dreaming about who you could be or who you could be with, or who you can become friends with, or where you could live, and so it like is hard when they're like, but it's all gray.

Sonia: 25:42

Yeah, for what yeah? There's a lot of figuring out in those teen years and, yeah, like you're figuring everything out who you are, who you're like, what your relationships look like, what do you want to do in the future. Does that ever?

Sam: 25:57

stop though. No, it doesn't, it's just so extreme in the teen years, because it's the first time you really started thinking about stuff.

Liz: 26:02

That's true. That's a good reframe because I still do that.

Sonia: 26:04

I still have that every day, yeah, every day Of course, but when you're a teenager it's like biologically things are changing and like hormonally there's so much going on and it's that like uh, teenagers, but like really they're going through some shit, yeah, and they know, teen is hard.

Liz: 26:21

Yeah, and they know so much more about mental health than, like, I did as a teenager. Same, like all the people talking the good part of social media. Yeah, like, I'll be like, oh, like CPTSD, and they're like oh, yeah, I know about that. I was like I don't know about it.

Sam: 26:33

Yeah, and they like bring in an assessment they printed. I have that.

Sonia: 26:38

You have not, you have. Oh my gosh, I love that it's amazing. Okay, now I'm curious um with so many teen and younger clients, how often are you watching TikToks and Reels in your session?

Sam: 26:51

Do you have to research things? They say yes, yes. Nothing makes you feel like a dinosaur faster than being like I'm sorry. What does Yeet mean? Do?

Sonia: 27:00

we use that.

Liz: 27:01

Younger than both of us and I look younger than.

Sonia: 27:04

I am.

Liz: 27:04

Yeah, so everyone thinks I'm 22. Uh-huh, Like parents are like you're not 22.

Liz: 27:08

I'm like no, ma'am Thank you yeah, no, yeah, I don't. I don't watch like I watch TikToks for myself, sure, yeah, um, but I do have one client. Well, I have a couple of clients who will show me TikToks and Reels, which I love. I actually have an adult client who one time was like there's this TikTok about therapy. It reminds me of you. So you know, I've had that and, like I think pop culture is also a great way to bond with teens, like it's like an intake packet, like what meme best describes you and how you're presenting issues.

Sam: 27:39

Yes, exactly.

Liz: 27:41

No, it's like exactly All right. I sometimes when clients uh safety plan, I'm like send me a meme with your safety plan Like, oh, I love it, I love it yeah.

Sonia: 27:49

I had, um, a client in internship who was a teen, preteen teen, um and they brought a TikTok in to show me. This is what I wish I could tell my parents, and this TikTok describes it so well, and I'm thinking of maybe sharing this with my parents, and I think that's the best parts of social media, when they have access to things that are tools, really, in order to express themselves, because coming out to your parents or your family, or or trying to explain your identities or you know it's hard. It's hard as an adult. I can't imagine trying to do that at 13, 12, 14. And if you have TikTok to help you, why not? And we watched it in session together, which is not something grad school prepared us for there are a lot of things.

Liz: 28:45

Grad school did not prepare me for my supervisor prepared me for a lot of things. Yeah, my internship site prepared me very well for everything almost that I had to experience.

Sonia: 28:54

Okay, let's go there, then we will go there, we're running out of time actually.

Sam: 28:58

So we will go there next time when we force you to be here and hanging out with us.

Sonia: 29:02

Oh, I love that We'll talk all about it. It was so nice to have you here. Good luck with your race tomorrow. What is the time you're trying to beat?

Liz: 29:12

I'm afraid to say it, okay.

Sam: 29:14

Well then you're just on record.

Liz: 29:17

I'm shooting for a personal record. I'm going to swim really fast, then I'm going to bike really fast.

Sonia: 29:23

Last year you had a flat tire, so let's hope you don't get that this year.

Sam: 29:26

Thank you for remembering that we're giving you all the good juju for all the equipment. Thank you, thank you, no bike racks, no bike tires no safety.

Liz: 29:34

No tripping on the run.

Sonia: 29:36

Good luck tomorrow. Thank you for being here and please come back soon.

Sam: 29:41

Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. Bye. Mental Break it Down is produced and edited by Sam and Sonia. Our logo was created by the amazing art of Andoi. If you have any questions, comments or have a topic you want discussed on the podcast, email us at mentalbreakitdownatgmailcom or connect with us on Instagram at mentalbreakitdown. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Nothing said in this podcast constitutes personal or professional consultation, therapy, diagnosis or creates a counselor-client relationship. It is not intended to provide medical or mental health advice. The views and opinions expressed by the host and guests are theirs alone. Thanks for listening. Bye.