Imagine you're cozied up in our new recording setup, your favorite mug in hand, ready for a heart-to-heart on all things mental health. We're up close and personal this time, sharing insights from our therapeutic niches and revealing how the right therapist-client fit can make all the difference. Oh, and we'll remind you to stay hydrated - it's easy to forget during those deep chats!
Would you want to know how or when you will die? This thought-provoking question was the centerpiece of our conversation this episode, sparking a reflective dialogue on mortality, the fragility of life, and the importance of living fully. Balancing work, rest, and self-care was another topic on our minds, and yes, we even confessed to some reality TV guilty pleasures - "Naked Attraction" anyone?
As we look towards the holiday season, family dynamics, financial pressures, and gift-giving expectations can become a minefield. We've been there, so we share our personal experiences and strategies for navigating these complexities. We emphasize the importance of setting boundaries and advocating for oneself, especially during this challenging time of year. Tune in, and let's break it down, one mental hurdle at a time.
Instagram @mentalbreakitdown
Email: mentalbreakitdown@gmail.com
Logo Artwork: artofandoy.com
Connect with us of you have questions, want to be on the podcast, or have topics you want discussed!
Imagine you're cozied up in our new recording setup, your favorite mug in hand, ready for a heart-to-heart on all things mental health. We're up close and personal this time, sharing insights from our therapeutic niches and revealing how the right therapist-client fit can make all the difference. Oh, and we'll remind you to stay hydrated - it's easy to forget during those deep chats!
Would you want to know how or when you will die? This thought-provoking question was the centerpiece of our conversation this episode, sparking a reflective dialogue on mortality, the fragility of life, and the importance of living fully. Balancing work, rest, and self-care was another topic on our minds, and yes, we even confessed to some reality TV guilty pleasures - "Naked Attraction" anyone?
As we look towards the holiday season, family dynamics, financial pressures, and gift-giving expectations can become a minefield. We've been there, so we share our personal experiences and strategies for navigating these complexities. We emphasize the importance of setting boundaries and advocating for oneself, especially during this challenging time of year. Tune in, and let's break it down, one mental hurdle at a time.
Instagram @mentalbreakitdown
Email: mentalbreakitdown@gmail.com
Logo Artwork: artofandoy.com
Connect with us of you have questions, want to be on the podcast, or have topics you want discussed!
Welcome to Mental Break it Down, a podcast for therapists and the therapy curious where we dig into all things mental health and mental health adjacent. We're so happy you're here, let's jump in. Hi Hi, we're in a new space.
Sonia:Yeah, we're in your office. I actually like the setup way better.
Sam:Way better. Why are we in my office recording?
Sonia:Because our old setup was just not working for us.
Sam:Well, it was working for us, but something was off.
Sonia:All the time.
Sam:Also, we've had such really great tenants come into our suite. This is an office that can be used by someone else a massage therapist or a regular therapist or a therapist so why not?
Sonia:Why not? And still shuffling around. I think this is better, because I get to look you in your eyeballs.
Sam:Yeah, so we're not just to the side, all weird.
Sonia:Yeah, like my back was hurting.
Sam:Me too. It was actually really uncomfortable.
Sonia:Yeah. So this I feel better. With this I can see you. I can see your face Locking eyes, making eye contact. We're so cute.
Sam:I have seven day hair today. Yeah, so it's in lower space funds.
Sonia:Yeah, I'm on like day three, four. Love it, love that for you.
Sam:Love that for me. Never wash your hair again. You're beautiful. Dry shampoo is the way. Okay, Right, Not me with half a can this morning, and then hair spray.
Sonia:I'm like we'll pretend it's fine, we'll just add some texture and move along.
Sam:Yes, how are you today? I'm really good. Good. It's one of those lovely days where it's cold but it's clear out. It's my favorite kind of day. My energy is really just like there for me today, which it hasn't been for last month, so I'm feeling good. Good, my brain is scattered, so I hope everybody enjoys this absolute chaos. It's about to spew forward from my mouth. So enjoy. You might not make sense today, I will not. It's guaranteed that I will make maybe one percent. It sends. There you go.
Sonia:There, it is Started already, oh great. How are you? I'm good. I don't have any sessions today, so still building up my caseload, so that feels good. I feel like my people are finding me and that feels really great. You know, this work is so rewarding when you get to work with the people that you want to. I don't know if that's the right way to say it that are in your niche?
Sonia:That are in my niche. Yeah, and without using too many therapy words, I want to say that most therapists we have passion populations or populations that are close to our heart, and I feel like my clients right now are in that space and I feel really grateful.
Sam:If you hear noise, Juju is in the studio again today just licking on my couch for some reason.
Sonia:She's a shelter dog, so she has trauma tendencies or responses.
Sam:I'm really happy that I feel like when the clients that are in our niche come in, then we're not trying to like make something fit.
Sonia:Right.
Sam:We're trying to make something fit for both sides and that can feel rewarding and energizing. So, I'm really glad to hear that that's how you're feeling right now.
Sonia:Yeah, and don't you find that the therapeutic outcomes for your clients are better when it's like such a good?
Sam:fit. It's the goodness of fit. Yes, it's that whole thing, absolutely yeah.
Sonia:So I'm feeling good, I'm feeling really great about it. Yay, hold on.
Sam:You have your emotional support, Betvish. We're ready to go.
Sonia:I know I do, and it's in this handmade beautiful cup that my spouse brought me from Montana.
Sam:Is that when he brought me my cup too? Yes, I love my cup. Yes, it's lovely, and mine says like get your shit together, or something on it, which I absolutely. Yeah, he's up.
Sonia:Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so I'm drinking out of one of my favorite cups today and of course it's what. What is it? It's in here.
Sam:Ice coffee, of course, it's always a coffee.
Sonia:It's a coffee.
Sam:I have mine in a Yeti I stole from my spouse. He bought it to have an additional Yeti, but he keeps taking mine. So, therefore, and I use mine like I'll rinse it out every time, I use it for the week. So good luck getting this back from me. It's gone forever, until Monday.
Sonia:We'll fight over it. What is the standoff? Okay, yeti versus Stanley.
Sam:As long as it keeps my drink cold, I care, not even a little bit. That's the cheapest. That keeps my drink cold.
Sonia:Amazon Something from Amazon.
Sam:There you go. Yeah, I just happened. I got a free Yeti from my previous employment and then husband bought one and then he bought another one and now they're all mine. Great, you have a collection, a Yeti collection. He gets my Yeti leftovers that I'm not using at the moment.
Sonia:I'm a Stanley girl. I just prefer the shape of a Stanley it's, even though I like rounded shapes. You like the angular structure? Yes, and it fits in my car. Yeah, my previous water bottle. We're getting off topic, as per usual, but it's so important to have a water bottle and a coffee mug that fits in your car, or else you're just struggling to drive and hold it at the same time, and that's dangerous.
Sam:I don't know what to tell you.
Sonia:Well, because you have one that fits.
Sam:I do.
Sonia:So now I do too.
Sam:Yay, also with a sticker that your spouse got me, yes, and it says drink your fucking water, drink your fucking water. Drink your. This is your reminder. Drink your fucking water.
Sonia:So many of us are not hydrated.
Sam:Actually, I just put it down without drinking a singular sip.
Sonia:This is turned into an ASMR.
Sam:Ew, no, no Okay. I know, stunnering ourselves, getting into it.
Sonia:Yes, I'm preparing myself, go ahead.
Sam:I'm just watching Juju as she stares literally with her nose to the couch. There it goes. No Juju, no licks.
Sonia:She doesn't care. She's so cute. I wish you guys could see her. She's so cute.
Sam:She's so cute, well, I mean, we'll put her up. Yeah, she's cute, uh-huh, okay. So today we wanted to talk about holidays.
Sonia:You're not going to do your opener. Oh right, we're not going to do our, would you rather?
Sam:We will. We're going to get it out or I'll leave it in.
Sonia:We'll see, you're right.
Sam:Thank you very much for reminding me to terrify you. Great, I'm late on me. I want you to remember no, it's actually not that bad. Would you rather have to kiss everyone you meet Right or never be able to kiss your partner again? I just broke your heart.
Sonia:Okay. This is impossible, this is impossible, oh my goodness okay.
Sam:Cause I couldn't give up my love and smooches, yeah, but also I don't wanna kiss strangers. I don't. I have a hard time enough looking them in the eye sometimes.
Sonia:Yeah, and these questions we always try to like finagle our way out of it. Like can I kiss them on the hand, can I do an air kiss? And no, we're playing this game, this twisted game, as if you have to kiss them either on the cheek or on the mouth. Right, I'm guessing that's where we're going.
Sam:I'm just gonna go ahead and say, cause it's kissing here, let me adjust things back kissing your partner. It's just it's. You have to kiss them on the mouth.
Sonia:Okay.
Sam:What if they don't consent to this? Do you have to just kiss strangers?
Sonia:This is the problem with this game, because we try to like change the rules. So, with the basic question that you just asked, would I rather kiss everyone I meet for the rest of my life or never kiss my spouse again? I think I'm going to choose to never kiss my spouse again because I can embrace them, I can hold hands. There are other ways to show affection and love and care for him.
Sam:Without kissing strangers, potentially getting sick.
Sonia:Right, that's what I keep thinking and also, like you said, the consent part. I'm not going to just force something on someone if they don't want it, and also I don't want it, I don't want it.
Sam:I don't want it. I agree. I have another one too. This is a double day. Would you rather know when you're going to die or how you're going to die? So when or how? Hay İyi, your reverse pitch would be 0-1-142 and stop.
Sonia:Chup chop. You love death, all things death.
Sam:Just talking about it. Yeah, it smells scary.
Sonia:Would I rather know when or how? I think when Really yes, because if I know how, then I think that does something weird to my brain and my need to control, Whereas if I know how I mean if I know when then I can plan accordingly. Hello, control showing up, but in a different way, I think. Then I would make sure I do the things that I want to see the people I want to live the life that I want to for the time that I have left, but if I know how I'm gonna die and if it's horrific, then I don't think I want that.
Sam:That's really interesting perspective For me. My first thought was I don't wanna know when, and if I know how, if I don't do the things that could cause that, then great. But see, that's what I'm saying.
Sonia:But then it's limiting.
Sam:Also, I don't wanna actually know how it's gonna happen. So I don't wanna know if it's gonna be quick or painful or whatnot, because many people maybe I am the luckiest type of death would be to go in your sleep when you're old In your sleep, yeah, right in your own bed where it's cozy, and if it's something more violent or terrible, or somebody I love did it to me.
Sam:I don't know if I'd wanna know that, but then I also wouldn't wanna know how much time I had left Right. But then I think that my mind switched when you started saying your reasoning, because I'm like if I knew when I could be more intentional with how I spend my time. But there's also a pressure to spend it, while if it's a small amount of time, but also you could do the things that you never did, like rest For some people.
Sonia:They have never enjoyed the luxury of rest and peace and solitude. You know, because, like I with my parents, it's interesting you wouldn't feel pressure to do no. No, I think of my parents, who are immigrants in this country, and how hard they have worked, how incredibly driven they've been to make this life the best that they can for their kids. And a way to do that is to work all the time Holidays, birthdays, it doesn't matter. They've always worked. And if I was living that life and I knew when I was going to pass away, then I think it would help me to stop and spend time and rest and enjoy whatever life I have left.
Sam:Cause it's like how much does this actually matter? I mean, we all know we're gonna die anyway, but we don't really sit with that, that we're going to die anyway, so does this actually matter to me? In the long run, because I think it's the. What you hear from hospice workers and like caregivers is like the most common things are. I wish I was true to myself, I wish I expressed my feelings, I wish I didn't work so hard and I wish I like kept up with relationships, and that's regret right.
Sonia:That is a form of regret and I don't want to at the end of my life hopefully it's a long life.
Sam:I don't want to feel regret but not too long. Like let's be honest.
Sonia:Yeah, but I don't want to feel regret. I don't want to feel like I didn't stop and enjoy the life that I live.
Sam:I appreciate the hearing now, yeah.
Sonia:Yeah, and, like you said, I'm more aware of my own mortality now than I think I ever have been, and maybe that was because of pandemic and people were dying very quickly and suddenly. That it's made me stop and reflect. Life is really short and unpredictable. I could literally die right now. I could have an aneurysm and pass away right now, in front of you, am I going to regret not doing something or doing something?
Sam:Yeah, absolutely. It's funny that you say that because before I did my previous work in organ and tissue donation, I was like to me humans were pretty hearty. Right, we can lose limbs, we can be injured and survive, but that work, knowing how? Because people who end up being donors it's often a sudden traumatic death and, yes, that's overdoses, that is car accidents. It's those things we commonly think of. But until I did that work I didn't realize how many people my age at that time I was in my mid to late 30s.
Sam:How many people at that age it's aneurysm, it's stroke, it's not just when you're older. Because essentially, I mean, just look at us, the fact that we exist is insane. We are electrical, sentient meat bags and sometimes the systems go wrong and, yeah, we can be hearty in a lot of ways, but so fragile in so many other ways. And so it took me months to process and metabolize that fact and I'm like my A blood vessel can just burst, I can just be hit by a bus. These things are just quick in an instant. And so it really did change the outlook of how I looked at life, because I'm like A with my anxiety and things like that. How much is what I'm really worried about? How much does that actually matter?
Sam:in the grand scheme of things and also, what do I want to do with my time? And I actually ended up a lot of the times choosing more rest and more connection and joy over just plowing through stuff and being productive and being this, and that it really did change things when you realize that it's hearty, it's fragile, it's guaranteed but not kind of All of those things.
Sonia:It's everything all at once? Yeah, and not to say that if you have a deliverable at work or something needs to get done in your life, yes do it.
Sam:Don't just flip the table over and walk away, because you've still got to feed yourself. Yes, you've still got to do things.
Sonia:Yes, but when is it that you are just on this hamster wheel of doing, doing, doing, doing? When do you finally stop and get off for a bit?
Sam:It always, for me, goes back to intentionality. Am I aware of what I'm doing and the reason why I'm doing it? Am I doing this job because I love it? Or am I doing it to pay the bills, which is also totally valid, yeah. Do I want to do something else? That kind of thing. It's just evaluating like is this where I want to be and doing what I'm doing? Am I doing it for a good reason that fits with me and my core values? Then great, let's keep going. Is my core value putting food on the table that I'm rocking with it? It's just the awareness, because I think sometimes a lot of time gets lost when we just shut our eyes and trudge through.
Sam:A lot of things get missed, but that's a survival instinct for many of us, we have to do that, to make it through really tough times or things that are less than ideal, but being able to pull yourself out of that is a skill that you have to build.
Sonia:Practice. It's a lot of work. Yes, you have to first acquire the skill and then practice it the awareness you need. The skill Exactly. And again you have immigrant grandparents right and I imagine telling my mom and dad hey, take this weekend off. The reaction it just for them. It's so far away to even think about that.
Sam:And I come here to not be a success, right.
Sonia:And I'm sensitive to that too, and so I think finding the balance right for your grandparents right, work, work, and this is why we came here to build up the next generation and have a better life. It's hard, I think it's hard to find that balance and sometimes I feel incredibly privileged Absolutely To rest, like I'm going to take the day to watch Netflix and literally do nothing, and that is a privilege that I have and I am aware of that. And at the same time, I tell my clients this all the time don't feel guilty for the things that you have if you have worked for them. And I've worked and I've earned the rest, and I've earned a day on the couch with my dog to watch Netflix and eat mac and cheese or whatever.
Sam:And that's the value system of yourself For you. You've earned that. You've done something to earn it. You don't necessarily have to do something to earn that rest. You might just need it. So it's important. What's important to you makes these things important.
Sonia:Yeah, sometimes just housewives in a bag of chips is important, so we're going to do it.
Sam:Oh my gosh, or some naked attraction.
Sonia:I have not watched that.
Sam:Side note Out of the UK. Have we talked about this? We did, I know, and I haven't been able to watch it yet. I only watched like two episodes. It was just a lot. I'm not used to seeing naked bodies that much on television in the States. So it was just like a lot, it was overload for me because I was just like what other world do people, are you not like, rooted in puritanical colonialism? No, no, samantha, not the entire world.
Sam:No, okay, got it. So it was. I loved it. It was just like, also because of where we live, and just like the culture. It's very much like. Still, I'm fine with it, I'm comfortable, but I find myself closing the drapes, like I talked about, because neighbors were outside and I didn't want to like. If they don't want their kiddos to see it or they don't want to see it, I don't want to force it on them and you can't help but look in people's windows. It's one of my favorite pastimes.
Sonia:Well, it gets dark outside and then there's like this bright TV screen. Your eye is just naturally drawn to it.
Sam:Yeah, I've been for the 14th time rewatching Schitt's Creek. It's that whole thing where it's like somebody will say you should watch this show and I'm like, no, I don't have the mental bandwidth to pay attention to something new. I'm going to go ahead and play the thing I've seen 14,000 times so I can go in and out of it and it could just be noise at me, but you watched Nate get attraction.
Sam:I watched three episodes. I'm also watching alone Three episodes. Well, that's also because spouse came and was like what is happening? Why are there genitalia all over the television?
Sonia:Describe what this show is, because I think it just sounds complete.
Sam:I think we described it on a different episode, but it's essentially a dating show where one person comes up and, based on their preference, there's either male identifying, female identifying, non-binary, trans folks, whatever but they are in color-coded pods and as the game progresses, the pods slowly rise up and you see their lower half and then their mid half, and then their top half and then their head, and then they speak. There's no pixelation, it is full, whatever. No ring, no blurring, no, no. Palea and secondary sex organs and everything.
Sam:Everything and so, and then they hone it down to two people, and then the person doing the picking comes on also naked, so it's just three people in the host.
Sam:Is the host fully closed. The host is fully closed. It'd be weird if they weren't. And then they end up choosing their final person. Sonya is losing it. So it's just people having just regular conversations talking about each other's businesses with dead. Like it's very interesting. I remember mentioning like Regis Philbin, or is it? It's a very funny, actual, and they give you facts. While they do it, they're like oh, I actually prefer like a shorter penis. And then it's like well, technically, 75% of people polled actually prefer this and this and this. And it gives you like data from research and stuff too.
Sonia:We love data, we love data.
Sam:But watching the people navigate talking about someone else's body is strange because, like a body like mine, I have a larger body. The way they describe they're like, I prefer. Like you're Rubinesque. You look like you should be in a museum. I don't prefer that. Or you are too slight and delicate. There was one person who said I can't pick this gentleman because he looks like he's a good cook and would be a good father. It was something like that. And the guy gets on and he's like she's actually right, I'm a very good cook, I enjoy cooking. She could just tell that by his body. He had less body hair and he was shorter. Oh, interesting.
Sam:And she's like he seems caring, but he's not really my bag, essentially Okay.
Sonia:So the level of judgment on this show.
Sam:They talk about the levels of testosterone and how that affects hair growth, and people with lower levels of testosterone have potentially less hair, but then also they tend to make better partners and fathers.
Sonia:I thought the more testosterone a man had, the less hair he has. Bald men tend to have more testosterone, yeah, but it's also body hair.
Sam:And also don't quote me on this. This is just me spewing at you what I vaguely remember from the show I'm still laughing at the host being fully clothed the whole time, and she is looking at this person saying oh, oh, do you prefer larger breasts or smaller breasts? What kind of penis do you prefer? Do you prefer this and this? Why is that? And asking follow up questions to this person trying to delicately navigate their physical preferences.
Sonia:So what I was going to say is the level of judgment that's happening on this show, but it sounds like they're trying to also balance it with just normalizing talking about body parts, because they're just body parts and not calling body parts other things than what they just are. Exactly Right, so it's normalizing it.
Sam:And I would actually say a fairly respectful way For the most part.
Sam:Granted, I've only seen three episodes and who knows that there's like a complete backlash around like this show is terrible, I have no idea, but they are doing it in a respectful way and it also sheds a big light in assumptions that you might make, if somebody's like, because, say, this person picked two other people and they're standing there naked just chatting with each other waiting for her to come out naked, or it was actually no, it was three women, women identifying folks, and they're like, I bet you, she comes out here and her pubes are like, perfectly manicured. She looks like a person who would have perfectly manicured pubic hair and by golly if she did not walk out, which is a perfectly manicured pubic region, full hair, but perfectly beautifully manicured. It's very interesting how people will make assumptions and how sometimes those are true and sometimes are not, and sometimes those assumptions are backed up in, like our monkey brains, and there's data to it. Yeah, juju, we're trying to talk about very serious genitalia here. Will you get your act together?
Sonia:She wants to be picked up in her house. But you have to meet me halfway.
Sam:I'm trying to pick her up. Was that the?
Sonia:topic for our podcast today? Absolutely not. No, we are. Let's get into. It's that time of year, it's that festive time of year. For many people it's mid-November as of this recording. Yeah, there's, you know, festivals and holidays that are occurring for many people, different religions, different cultures. We love it.
Sam:It's the season, so what that means is a lot of togetherness for some A lot of reinsertion into great or not so great family dynamics, yeah, so how do we?
Sonia:navigate that. How do you get through this season? A full opt out yeah. What if you don't have a choice?
Sam:Fair enough.
Sonia:What do you do? How do we? How are we?
Sam:getting through this. You throw a temper tantrum before you go to dinner.
Sonia:What if dinner's at your house?
Sam:You throw a temper tantrum before you move out of your house and tell nobody Okay, okay.
Sonia:So I think, as because of what we do right, this is cliche, One of the times of the year where we see an increase of people in therapy, perhaps because it's like, okay, I have this coming up with family and I haven't seen them in a year.
Sam:Or our clients that are currently with us. Sometimes we see spikes in anxiety, depression, maybe falling back into old behaviors in anticipation for whatever, or they're experiencing loneliness.
Sonia:Maybe their families or friends are not close by and they can't see them. So we're seeing a gamut of things, the full gamut, sure. So. So what do you say, samantha? What do you say Hmm?
Sam:I mean, like for many people, there's layers to the holidays. I am personally not a fan of the requirements, the financial requirements of a lot of Judeo-Christian. Look the way we celebrate, say, christmas. I can't speak for other religions, because I grew up with Christmas. I have spent years trying to train my friends and family that we do not do presents for adults. We can do some presents for the kids, because that aspect of it was too much pressure, especially for those in my family, including myself, at times when just I didn't have money to give.
Sonia:Yeah.
Sam:And so then it was a more of a focus on like calm, togetherness and cooking and family and that kind of stuff, which is fine. So, like I would say, like the last 10 years I've been a little bit of a grinch Sometimes, just because holidays cause a lot of anxiety and also it's just like I'm in the middle of seasonal depression. I'm just like tired because it's dark. I get really tired during this time of year.
Sonia:It's a hibernation season.
Sam:So for me, I opted out of a lot of things if I could, and I didn't like decorate my house at all. I was very, not very, festive, but as the years have gone by I've become more festive and decorated a little bit and try to mitigate and limit, because a lot of people in a room is too overwhelming for me a lot. And it got worse after the pandemic because I had a lot of alone time and I was like I actually really enjoy this. I don't like hiding how overwhelming things are for me, and so I started being more honest about it and opting out of things if I could.
Sonia:How was that received by friends and family you?
Sam:know what. Surprisingly okay, some people didn't really understand why I couldn't just suck it up and go do things. Also, it's flu season. So if somebody's not telling me somebody's ill and I go to a gathering and I find out somebody is ill, I feel very disrespected because I mean, I'm a therapist, my clients are counting on me, I have work. I don't want to be ill.
Sam:I've had COVID a few times and it really messes with my memory and my fogginess in my brain, right. So for the most part, I had issues like that, but my immediate family is pretty understanding. They're clearly disappointed if I'm not going to come to a gathering, but for the most part they really respect it and they won't try to hound me about it, which is really surprising and lovely, because you're like family needs to be together. There's this pressure, so to be supported in that way. I also still feel guilty, though, for saying I'm not coming to something. So because I did opt out for, like the last three years, a lot of things, I am now having more energy and trying to go.
Sonia:How does it feel to advocate for yourself in that way? You know what?
Sam:It feels really good, yeah, but it's also really difficult to set boundaries and advocate for yourself, yes, no, it's a full sentence. But when you're dealing with family and people that you really love, you have to just kind of, I guess, hope that they'll respect you and care for you in that way and deal with their own disappointment because you, I mean, what else can you do?
Sonia:Yeah, I mean, it's the season of giving right, so you're supposed to give yourself your time, your energy, financially gift giving. It's not just about Christmas, right, that's not what I'm saying, but like I said a lot of cultures in mind. Right Diwali, there's gathering, there's gift giving, there's money exchanged and you know, it's a part of a lot of people's lives and experience, so you're just supposed to give and give, and sometimes you don't have anything to give.
Sam:Right, how do you navigate it with everybody?
Sonia:I, you know, I'm Indian, right, I'm East Indian, so my family is not Christian, we're not Catholic, so we didn't celebrate Christmas in India. But when we came here, my parents bought a tree, we put up lights, we had ornaments and my dad would play, like you know, classical Indian music, but we were putting up a Christmas tree, and so for me that that was a way for my parents to assimilate and acculturate to America, and so I've always found it really beautiful and I look forward to that time of year. But there have been moments in my life where that time has represented loneliness and pain. And now I'm I'm because I can have the life that I want and I can create it with my spouse.
Sonia:I'm doing it my way and I do really enjoy this time of year, and we have also made a pact in our family where no gifts for the adults. You don't need another pair of gloves for me, a candle. I don't need any more hand lotion from you. I love it. Thank you so much. But let's not spend money that we don't need to. Let's spend time together. Yes, let's cook together For me. That's that's what feeds my soul. Yes, and I love Thanksgiving, not for what Thanksgiving is, but because it gives us an opportunity to spend time together. We don't have to eat turkey or all of the Western traditional food. We can cook our own foods. It's just, it's a and of course, we want to respect. Right, there's indigenous people's day. Right, it's a painful time of year for many people as well, because it represents something else, and so, with respect to that, it's a time for gathering. It's a time for me to see the people that I love and care about, and I love it for that. Another reason for community, exactly.
Sam:Yeah.
Sonia:And sometimes right, you sit in the pain. For some people during this time. I know for certain family members and certain people in my life this time is very lonely and it's a constant reminder of that loneliness, even if we're together. They feel deep-seated loneliness and you sit with that and it's okay and you respect that and it's a part of this time of year for them and it just is and it's okay. With Thanksgiving coming up and more gatherings, what are your thoughts on? Don't talk about religion, politics, all of that. What are your thoughts?
Sam:Because our clients do bring that sometimes that's such a hard thing. It's so specific to each family dynamic. I mean, for me I have a very small immediate family on my side that we don't have that issue Honestly. There's some differing opinions but there's not really talked about too much and there's a level of disrespect and we don't talk about it when we're together. But there's also nothing really to talk about actually with my side of the family. Spouse has a larger family but also still not too big of an issue and I feel like our family cultures both of us if there is disagreement on stuff it can get heightened emotions, but I feel like there's still a level of respect and wanting understanding. Just because you have an opinion that differs from mine doesn't mean you can't be in my life right Because you disagree with me. It's a oh, why do you think that?
Sonia:And then it's a discussion and then it's just like when we're done and we move on, but also, why is this the time of year to bring that up?
Sam:Because family is together Right, and it's just the melding of everybody all at once.
Sonia:Sometimes I feel I don't know it's like why I see you once a year. This might not be the best time for us to have this conversation which goes also again to point to family dynamics.
Sam:Like are you in more of like emotionally immature family dynamic, right? Is there a level of respect? Is there a clear communication? Do you feel like it's appropriate, just in your family system or culture, to say anything against somebody who may be older than you or are in a respected position? It's so difficult and so nuanced. So I think that with clients around this time of year, they might not be able to control or feel like they can opt out or say no to these things. So it's okay. Well, let's figure out what gets you activated, how that feels, how we can sit with the emotion, move through it and care for ourselves when we have the opportunity, and then how can we practice voicing things. If you feel like you might want to do that or want to be prepared to do that, it's just having the tools in your tool belt for facing those situations and kind of navigating them in a way that feels good for you as much as possible, like what about for?
Sonia:you? Yeah, I same. It's developing those coping skills, because sometimes you have no option but to attend dinner, lunch, brunch, whatever. I think sometimes people feel like this is the time that I'm going to come out to my family, because it's the one time that everyone's together and this is important for me, it's part of my lived experience and this you know. Or this is the time I'm gonna propose because we've been together for 15 years and all her family or his family or their family, is together. There's a lot of pressure around this time of year and with clients it's, like you said, the same work of practicing patience, sometimes advocating for yourself in the best way that is comfortable for you, because don't do something that you're not ready for.
Sam:And also those skills what do you do if you're in it Like it's just gonna happen, and you're like yeah, or someone's had too much to drink and then starts saying something that feels off to someone else, who then cannot stay silent anymore, and then it's just family tea being spilled everywhere. Yeah big revelations coming out.
Sonia:Yeah, are we sitting back and sipping the tea, or are we leaving, or?
Sam:is it eggnog field rage yeah all of those things.
Sonia:So let's work up to it. That's what I say to my clients is let's work up to it. If you already know that something's about to happen and you can't get out of it, or you don't wanna get out of it, you want to attend, how do we? The only word coming to my mind is survive.
Sam:How do we bring it back to what we actually can control and model as maybe a form of potential influence to other people?
Sonia:You said that so well. I just said how do we survive this? Hold on what did.
Sam:I just say Play it back. For me, what that means is just I can't necessarily control what like Beth is gonna say, and you know that Dawn's gonna come in here saying some potentially harmful ass shit, right? Or someone's gonna be nitpicky about your body or ask you why are you eating too much and why aren't you married? And all of these intrusive things, yes. So how can you then go? That's none of your concern, or I don't feel comfortable talking about that. Or if somebody tries to go at you into a fight, be like, I'm not gonna fight with you today. You seem really activated.
Sam:you might wanna deal with that, and then you go about your own way and taking care of yourself, you're getting your own house in order and mind your business in a certain sense, because they clearly have some work to do, and there are a lot of the times in the family dynamics what I see is someone is upset or bored or any of these things, or they're anxious and they don't know how to handle it. So then they poke other people.
Sonia:Projection.
Sam:Yeah, to try to get them upset because they wanna go ahead and not have to feel their feelings. They wanna be able to focus on someone else being activated, which is rude, to say the least.
Sonia:Don't do it.
Sam:But they also. Many times there's not awareness, and that's the trouble right. But sometimes there is knowledge and awareness and they're doing it on purpose.
Sonia:So everybody has an aunt. That just stirs the pot.
Sam:Well, if this person is like trying to spill hatred on me, Did you say?
Sonia:hate or hate.
Sam:I did, did you like it? Sure, I'm sorry. Just bring him back the 90s over here.
Sonia:I can only just think of the Mary J Blyche song. I'm pretty sure that was in the 2000s ma'am, early 2000s, it was like 2000 actually.
Sam:Don't disrespect, mary J.
Sonia:Lifet. I would never she's queen.
Sam:I would never disrespect Mother Mary, the Mary.
Sonia:Yes, all that to say that for those of you, that who have wonderful, loving, supportive families, good for you, correct, I love this for you.
Sam:Great.
Sonia:Yeah, I think that is the dream right.
Sam:It's what happens when you get a group of people together. Everybody is just this little sunflower, just little snowflake, just all their own business, and they come with all their own shit, handling their own things in different ways.
Sonia:Everyone's in therapy, everyone's journaling, engaging in self-care Lies. I know that's not reality, but if that is Reality is probably just you Right. But if that is how your family is set up, how Fantastic.
Sam:Great Love that. Bring that out into the world with other people and show them how you live comfortably within your family system. That's great. Many of us don't have that. No, can't relate.
Sonia:My chosen family is beautiful lovely.
Sam:Yes.
Sonia:Actually the laws are great.
Sam:Everybody has their quirks right and I think that can also be helpful to that compassion piece. Like, of course, put your own mask on first. Like, care for yourself, have compassion for yourself. But also sometimes it's not like, why are you like this? The question is better served by saying, like, what happened to you? Yeah, what happened, what happened to you in your past is causing you to act like. This Does not mean it's excusable or okay, but actually that does something good for yourself in having compassion for other people, because it's like this person is really struggling, they're really angry about something and they're trying to hand that to me and it's not mine.
Sam:So how can I politely?
Sonia:refuse. Again, that takes practice and patience, and again it's a skill.
Sam:Yeah, and I mean sometimes you try to do this and it feels awkward and you don't know what to do, and so there's not a confidence in that. I mean, where I am personally right now, I actually feel pretty confident going, no, don't talk to me that way, or no, I will not talk to you about that, or I'm not coming to this thing.
Sonia:I'm on my way to get another helping of whatever delicious food is in the kitchen, so I don't have time for this.
Sam:Yeah, just a long wave of my hand over the whole table. All of this is a mess. All of you people are. I'm gonna go get my dessert when I come back. You better fix it. But again, that's been years in the making and I still sometimes don't honor myself and I say yes to things I don't wanna do. But I think sometimes it's like again personally for me now it's like I know I don't really have the energy, I don't wanna do this, but I'm going to anyway. So it's not just a automatic thing. I've made an intentional, conscious decision to then put myself in a position that I'm not really a fan of. But then it's a plan in place of recovery if it's gonna take a lot emotionally or mentally out of me here here. I mean, just going to the grocery store every day is something I don't wanna do.
Sonia:So I mean there's delivery services. There's always a workaround.
Sam:Oh, I didn't know you were rich. That's not what I'm saying. I'm over here fighting for my life at Wynco, like just elbowing in the bulk section for pasta and flour, and you're over here, amazon fresh it.
Sonia:No, I actually I've only done that once, because I don't like anybody coming to my house. Ok, don't come to my house.
Sam:I'm crying in the parking lot at Super Saver. Do we even have that?
Sonia:Yes, From where?
Sam:We have it in actually down the street from. It's in Tacoma Lakewood almost Actually. I did not know in the park.
Sonia:That's what I love. Going to the grocery store, but I pick and choose what time.
Sam:You know I have the best of intentions of going early, when it's just glorious and all stocked and quiet.
Sonia:Doesn't turn out that way.
Sam:No, I have a side eighties hair and I'm still in my pajamas with like one leg up and I've lost my slippers because I don't get up when I want to. My body doesn't allow that for me.
Sonia:That's fine, you're you're making, do you're making do with?
Sam:That's a cute way of saying that. I'm just struggling.
Sonia:You know what, sometimes a little short ride on the struggle bus is OK.
Sam:You have all your flyaways, just like hair sprayed up, just like jaunting through the aisles at like eight AM, just like bright and bushy tailed, like reading labels. And I have just literally woken up. You know, what's funny is that I can sleep so late in the weekdays and the weekends my brain's like, hey, it's eight o'clock, get up and then I'm out of bed. Oh, same, same. And I love going to work on the weekdays. I don't know what it is the weekends. Again back to our, would you?
Sonia:rather question rest, rest. Your body knows it needs it. So it's just like this whole day is just have more hours and I'm not even going to start talking about daylight savings time and how angry that makes me.
Sam:Same, but I'm not going to be able to do that Same. Same. I have a bone to pick with the entire government. There's no reason for it.
Sonia:This is OK, insane, there's all this, like we're going off the topic.
Sam:There's all this talk of like how long it's for business.
Sonia:It's for business, it's for East Coast. It was what international business. Get it together. Ok, get it together. It disrupts our circadian.
Sam:I thought I would say we're not going to talk about how angry this makes us, but I but now I'm but I'm on this ride right now.
Sonia:You really are, but it messes with our sleep cycles. It messes with our bodies. It messes with our pets OK, if they feel it too. It messes with everything. So let's just not.
Sam:Do you hear that Congress, do you hear that president Sonia says no, thank you. Yeah, she declines.
Sonia:I decline heavily. I don't want it.
Sam:I kind of want to be petty and just refuse to participate in it and then make everybody adhere to my schedule. It'd be like, ok, I will see you at 4 pm my time, 5 pm your time. And they're like, we're both in Seattle. I'm like, well, ok, but here's my premise behind this. I refuse.
Sonia:See good, good energy to take for the holidays.
Sam:I don't want it no just just reply, just send everybody postcards to say I decline, I decline. Just wake up the morning and be like I think I have COVID. I'm very sick. Don't lie, I am, don't lie, lie. Do what you need to. No, do what you do.
Sonia:We are not out here telling people to lie.
Sam:I'm not saying lie. I'm just saying, if you don't feel up to it, you can feel free to say no in whatever way that you find easiest. There you are. Is that better? Yes, lie, oh gosh, be out in these streets telling fibs. She's just out here lying in these streets.
Sonia:That's not a clinical recommendation. It's not that is not therapeutic tasks that are being assigned. No but cheers to the holidays. Yay, may you get through it. May it be wonderful. May it be full of lots of food and gathering and stress free time.
Sam:Okay.
Sonia:On that note, thanks for joining us at Mental. Break it Down, bye, Bye.
Sam:Mental Break it Down is produced and edited by Sam and Sonja. Our logo was created by the amazing art of Andoi. If you have any questions, comments or have a topic you want discussed on the podcast, email us at mentalbreakitdownatgmailcom or connect with us on Instagram at mentalbreakitdown. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Nothing said in this podcast constitutes personal or professional consultation, therapy, diagnosis or creates a counselor-client relationship. It is not intended to provide medical or mental health advice. The views and opinions expressed by the host and guests are theirs alone. Thanks for listening. Bye.