Picture this: It's a chilly morning, the scent of fresh coffee wafts through the air, and the anticipation of the upcoming season tingles in the atmosphere. We kick off our conversation reminiscing about our past visit to the pumpkin patch, as we anticipate the new memories awaiting us this year. We discuss the significance of these rituals on our identities as therapists and how they offer us a refreshing perspective outside the therapy room.
Now, have you ever wondered how therapists handle unexpected encounters with clients in their personal life? We share our strategies and experiences with you, navigating the tricky waters of maintaining boundaries outside the therapy room. From attending fairs to popping up on social media, we tackle the complexities of being digital-age therapists. We explore the mixture of excitement and overwhelm this dual life can bring, and the importance of being prepared for it.
Lastly, we bring in some laughter and creativity as we balance authenticity and professionalism in our online presence. We share our thoughts on the importance of humor and self-expression in our work and how they make our lives meaningful and resilient. As we wrap up, we delve into the concept of autonomy in therapeutic relationships, discussing how our beliefs shape our life view and why it's okay for clients to know more about us. So, buckle up and join us as we sip on our coffee, laugh a little, and share some life lessons!
Thunderhorse Productions: http://www.thunderhorseproductions.com/
Instagram @mentalbreakitdown
Email: mentalbreakitdown@gmail.com
Logo Artwork: artofandoy.com
Connect with us of you have questions, want to be on the podcast, or have topics you want discussed!
Picture this: It's a chilly morning, the scent of fresh coffee wafts through the air, and the anticipation of the upcoming season tingles in the atmosphere. We kick off our conversation reminiscing about our past visit to the pumpkin patch, as we anticipate the new memories awaiting us this year. We discuss the significance of these rituals on our identities as therapists and how they offer us a refreshing perspective outside the therapy room.
Now, have you ever wondered how therapists handle unexpected encounters with clients in their personal life? We share our strategies and experiences with you, navigating the tricky waters of maintaining boundaries outside the therapy room. From attending fairs to popping up on social media, we tackle the complexities of being digital-age therapists. We explore the mixture of excitement and overwhelm this dual life can bring, and the importance of being prepared for it.
Lastly, we bring in some laughter and creativity as we balance authenticity and professionalism in our online presence. We share our thoughts on the importance of humor and self-expression in our work and how they make our lives meaningful and resilient. As we wrap up, we delve into the concept of autonomy in therapeutic relationships, discussing how our beliefs shape our life view and why it's okay for clients to know more about us. So, buckle up and join us as we sip on our coffee, laugh a little, and share some life lessons!
Thunderhorse Productions: http://www.thunderhorseproductions.com/
Instagram @mentalbreakitdown
Email: mentalbreakitdown@gmail.com
Logo Artwork: artofandoy.com
Connect with us of you have questions, want to be on the podcast, or have topics you want discussed!
Welcome to Mental Break it Down, a podcast for therapists and the therapy curious, where we dig into all things mental health and mental health adjacent. We're so happy you're here, let's jump in.
Sonia:Where's my coffee? The coffee is necessary all the time, all the time. We don't go without it.
Sam:We can't, we'll die.
Sonia:Yeah, we can't. And why would we? Why would you want to? Yeah, it's my favorite beverage Ice coffee, specifically Great.
Sam:What are you drinking today? Ice coffee. This is my third one.
Sonia:Well, I thought so I support it. Thank you, as long as you're hydrating, I support it.
Sam:I haven't. I've had half of a water bottle. Oh, do you think I'm okay?
Sonia:Probably not.
Sam:Great, this is okay.
Sonia:Everything is fine. I'm not going to lie to you. Drinking three coffees and no water, that's not okay. Your kidneys are screaming, but are you having a great time?
Sam:I'm living a life there. That's all that matters. Literally. Doing the photos today, I was like I wonder if my coffee misses me. Where is it? I'm sitting there getting my photo taken. I'm like I almost my coffee.
Sonia:Do you ever go to sleep thinking about the coffee in the morning? And food? Yes, yes, I do.
Sam:I get really excited about my little morning ritual.
Sonia:It's great. I love making my iced coffee. Yeah, I love a morning routine. I'm going to put my laptop down on the floor right now, so I'm going to disappear by the screen.
Sam:Who even said I'm going to put you on the screen? It might just be me this whole time and we're recording your whole face from nothing.
Sonia:Oh no, how would that be received?
Sam:Selfishly, but like that, girl has problems. I don't want her to be my therapist.
Sonia:You're doing great. I'm back, yes, okay, what are we talking about today? Welcome to mental. Welcome to mental. Break it down. Welcome to mental. Break it down. That did not go well, no you're struggling. Welcome to mental break it down.
Sam:Welcome to mental break it down.
Sonia:I'm Sonia, I am.
Sam:Sam.
Sonia:Glad you're here. This is going well. Spooky season is upon us.
Sam:It is in my heart it's still 80 degrees out, so my heart and my soul do not align with the environment.
Sonia:I know I'm kind of over it. I'm not kind of, I'm completely over it. You've been over it since, like April.
Sam:Since it started. Yes, anything above like 60, 65, is an abomination.
Sonia:Yeah, we live in the Pacific Northwest for the misty, the fog, or at least you and I do, maybe not everyone.
Sam:No, I know a lot of people who really love the sun and I don't understand them.
Sonia:I love the sun. I don't love the heat. Fair, give me sunshine from like 5am to like 7.30pm.
Sam:I want like an early November day when it's 55 and sunny but crisp.
Sonia:Crisp, crisp. We will get there shortly.
Sam:Yeah, not me like sweating all day today.
Sonia:Are we going to go to the pumpkin patch this year, Samantha?
Sam:You betcha.
Sonia:Are we going to bring a wagon?
Sam:You betcha.
Sonia:I'm very excited because nobody else wants to go with me.
Sam:Why, I have no idea. You have to get there right when it opens Of course so there's not too many children. You're not fighting with everybody. And then you just do your whole business.
Sonia:I need all of my aesthetically pleasing pumpkins.
Sam:I will not bring my own wagon this year because cleaning the mud off it was harder.
Sonia:Yeah, do they have wagons there? They do they have wheelbarrows. Perfect, let's just put on our galoshes. Yes, is that a thing?
Sam:Sure, that's a thing.
Sonia:Yeah, I was-.
Sam:They're like rain boots. Yes, they're like hunters.
Sonia:Yes, wellies, wellies, I'm going to wear my hunters and then go. Great, I'm excited for this. That a little bit of backstory. I guess this is a part where we get to show a little bit of ourselves. I had never been to a pumpkin patch prior to Was it last year? Year before, the year before, before 2021. I had never been to a pumpkin patch and, growing up in an area where there's plenty of pumpkin patches everywhere, lots, lots it just wasn't something that my family did, and I often say oh, I'm Indian.
Sam:Hair. I don't know about this, I'm Indian.
Sonia:Yeah, I have to say that Indian people do not go to the pumpkin patch. They absolutely do.
Sam:Your Indian experience.
Sonia:My East Indian experience, my South Asian experience. My family did not go to the pumpkin patch, but we had pumpkins. We just bought them at the grocery store.
Sam:Well, I mean, I would go when we were little.
Sonia:Yeah.
Sam:But then it would mostly be like we just bought them at the grocery store. It was like a every five year situation, and then I hadn't gone to the pumpkin patch in like 10 years when I took you.
Sonia:Well, thank you so much for taking me, because it was so meaningful and I think it was one of those moments in life that was like wow, someone showed up for me and we hadn't known each other for that long.
Sam:No only like five or six months or something like that.
Sonia:But I was like, oh, I've never been to a pumpkin patch. And you said I'm going to bring my wagon and you and I are going to go to the pumpkin patch. And we did, and I had the time of my life.
Sam:It was apple cider, it was overalls, it was mud, it was princess pumpkins, it was corn maze and then it was brunch.
Sonia:after it was everything. Thank you so much for doing that. It's one of my favorite memories.
Sam:Oh, that's cute.
Sonia:Yeah, so let's recreate it this year, because we didn't do it last year. No, last year we were in grad school.
Sam:Crying.
Sonia:Yes, crying so much, we had no time for anything.
Sam:Well, my anxiety was through the roof last October.
Sonia:Yeah, it was a lot last year. So, we are in a better space and let's get a pumpkin or two for our office.
Sam:Maybe just one.
Sonia:Oh my God, that's really cute. Please, yeah, so today's topic will be how do we show up in the world as therapists? How do we show up outside of our work, out of the room, being visible, being visible outside of the therapy space.
Sam:What does that mean to you? What's that look like?
Sonia:Oh my gosh, my therapist goes to the grocery store. Ew, she eats, she buys protein bars.
Sam:She makes reels on social Her face is on her website she does a podcast.
Sonia:Has a family, ew Friends, maybe a dog or a cat. I thought she lived at the office. When I leave she's animatronic and she never leaves the office. She shuts down.
Sam:Has no other clients, just me.
Sonia:When I was going through my own therapy experience, I always wondered what my therapist was like outside of session and I tried, like, oh, what did you do this weekend? Never, never shared anything, which I respected. It was always a very cordial like oh, spent time with family. Never have a spouse, I have kids, none of that, and I respect her. I respect her immensely for it, but I always wanted more. Like what are you doing outside of session? Did you ever Google your therapist? I did, and she does not have a big internet presence. The practice that she worked at doesn't even have a photo. Every other therapist at the practice has a photo except her. I'm like okay, she really does not want to be seen.
Sam:I mean, everybody is different, different levels, yeah.
Sonia:I, yes, Okay. So how do you feel about it? What is it like for you being visible as a therapist outside of the office, outside of GCC?
Sam:When it comes to being a person in the world, I don't care, that's totally fine, I'm gonna exist, I do stuff. If I see a client like we already discussed, it it's gonna be. I will not acknowledge you, besides just looking at you to know that I see you right. Unless you come up to me and we've already discussed, I will present as a family friend, unless you say otherwise.
Sonia:If you wanna come up, that's totally fine.
Sam:I don't care if they see my spouse, I don't care if they see my friends. It might be an issue if they see me in like not the best way, like say, I'm really sick and having a bad day, I got in a car wreck, I'm at the naked spa and like, okay, we need to talk to that. You just saw me nude.
Sonia:Yes, okay for those who are listening that don't live in an area that have naked spas. What are naked spas, sam?
Sam:So naked spas and they have it based on gender. It's either a women or women presenting, or it's male or it's mixed gender sometimes there's a couple of bathhouses that way. The one that I have been to is for women and female identifying folks and you just go in and you can get massages and there's saunas and then there's like hot and cold rooms and then there's dipping pools, so hot, cold, and you can go back and forthish. It's very Scandinavian, it's very Eastern, it's very all of these things, but also Korean spas.
Sonia:some Korean spas are like that too.
Sam:Yes, there's ones with restaurants even. That you go and you just get just massaged and you go into the dunking pools and then you go and eat some really delicious food.
Sonia:That sounds amazing. I've never been.
Sam:Those ones are up north. That one's up north. That's one by my house. But yeah, so you're literally, there's no clothes when you go in, so you're dressed with a whole bunch of other strangers and or friends just nude, nude, nude.
Sonia:Possibly clients.
Sam:And there's always a potential because this is a big city, but it's not. It's very connected. I see people, I know all the time, not just the city.
Sonia:I think the Greater Puget Sound area is a lot smaller than we think Totally. I mean, king County is pretty big, but not that big.
Sam:We're all packed in and small. Because I mean Washington State is essentially divided and it's one third where most everybody lives by the water and then the rest of the state on the other side of the mountains.
Sonia:Right, so you're okay if you're at the naked spot and you happen to see a client, or a client happens to see you.
Sam:I'm not okay. It just might happen Like I don't go all the time, Like the last time I was there was years ago but it's always it's on my list and you never know. You never know where you will see a client. Yeah, and that's why I'm not gonna change my whole way of being in the world, but I'm gonna be aware of things. Instead of going to the spa by my house or by the office, I might go farther up north in a way. I might do those types of things differently.
Sonia:But it also if you're seeing virtual clients from all over the place, it's a different story. It's a different story because, no matter where you go, your clients could be from that area.
Sam:And that's also part of the conversation, and intake too right, you and I might run into each other when it's not our best day.
Sonia:Oh, we'll talk about it, but do you find yourself, I don't wanna say changing the way you are in the world, but are you more conscious of your surroundings now, more than you used to be?
Sam:Yes.
Sonia:I am.
Sam:I'm much more intentional, because it's always like is this road rate incident gonna be with my client? Accidentally Could be, or their family and all of this stuff. What you don't wanna do is end up on the news to where somebody's like, oh my God, my therapist was just arrested. Oh, no Right, I mean, that's not how I am at all anyway, but I am just more cognizant and more aware of the potential of being seen by somebody who knows my client or is my client.
Sonia:Yeah, like going out for birthday parties, or like bachelorette parties or what I don't know. Yeah, having drinks would be crazy Having drinks and like getting lit and like letting loose or whatever. Are you more conscious of that now?
Sam:Well, the thing is I don't do that very often, anyways, just normally if I have cocktails it's like I'm a at home or friend's house kind of person.
Sonia:Me too. I'm not a go out person anymore.
Sam:So it's not a big of a deal to me anymore. But if I do go out and have some drinks it's usually in a very populated area and places I used to work, because my friends are still there.
Sam:So it might happen, and I'm also just absolutely bananas for the most part anyway, and so it is what it is. There's only so much that I can control. I'm gonna let the rest of it go, and if it happens, then it's just something to talk about in session. What about you? Have you changed the way you move through the world? I have a little bit.
Sonia:I think I try to leave the house as stress-free as possible as far as like how I look and I present. What does that mean?
Sam:though Stress-free as possible.
Sonia:That I'm not like anxious leaving the house where I'm gonna get in the car and have road rage. Of course I can't control it, it might happen, but I try to leave in the most calm state that I can. That way, when I am out in the world, I have more grounding.
Sam:I mean, that just sounds like a good way to be.
Sonia:Yeah, I'm trying to implement that more, but every once in a while, like you're gonna go to the grocery store in pajamas, you're gonna be at Costco in just absolute mania and you might have a client or two or three or four, also in Costco Super Bowl weekend or something, I don't know. Have you ever seen a client outside of session? I have not yet. I think I would approach it, just like you. I mean, in intake I always say I will never approach you, I will let you do that, and if you do, then I know it's okay. But also know that if we see each other and I don't come up to you, it's not me being a shitty person or rude.
Sonia:I am protecting your privacy. It is part of our job to do that. But if you come up to me then you like to say I'm a family friend. I really like that. I didn't think of what I was gonna say. I would just leave it up to my client.
Sam:I think that's the thing. I don't wanna make them nervous and have to come up with something on the fly and I think that's a great idea.
Sonia:I didn't think that far ahead. So, maybe, yeah, maybe you have a set title. I'm a family friend or we work together because we do. It's not a lie, we work together. Yeah, I haven't seen a client. I think it would be fine seeing a client. It depends on where.
Sam:I will have to say I have seen a client outside of the session I did not handle it how I am presenting right now. Oh really it was an internship. It was very early on an internship. I don't know if I told you this or not.
Sonia:How dare you keep things from me?
Sam:I think I told you or I mentioned it during, I don't know, but I had left right after our session to go down the street to Starbucks Because I need a lunch or I will absolutely pass away. So I pull up into the parking lot Because I was like I'm just going to run in, I don't want to do the line. And so I pull in and I get out of my car and the second I look over my car my client and their family member was coming out of their car the Starbucks too. And when I tell you, I dropped, I just went. And then I hid behind my car Because I was like, what do I do? Um, I blanked.
Sonia:You just blank panic.
Sam:But here's the thing is if it's something you can't control, then that's one thing. I then I saw the client. They did not see me. I then had the option to go. I'm going to go back in my car and go through the drive through, because I don't want to make my client uncomfortable.
Sonia:Oh yeah.
Sam:If I have control there. That's one I'm not going to like go behind the chips, and you've clearly seen me at the grocery store, right, but I had the option to go ahead and just change the situation. So I got back in my car and I went through the drive through.
Sonia:I think that's. That's great. I'm just imagining how we were in internship and the panic that might have come up for you.
Sam:It was literally a comedy movie flail. Like I nearly dropped my phone, like I just like, fell to the ground. It was very overdramatic.
Sonia:See, that is one of those spaces that I think I would be really comfortable seeing a client Like it's, it's coffee.
Sam:Oh yeah, there was no frontal lobe action, that was just a reaction.
Sonia:For sure. I think if I was in a internship and not really knowing I mean we were learning, learning all these new rules and how to be I probably would have done the same thing. I stepped on my own phone, cracked it Absolutely.
Sam:Just like keys go fling in Keys go fling, I mean okay.
Sonia:So one of the things that happens in the fall around here is the fair right. Hundreds, thousands of people go to the fair. That's a great place to see. Oh no, we almost lost our mics just now.
Sam:We really need to find a different way to put these up. Yeah, we need to get stands, I think.
Sonia:Okay, yeah, okay.
Sam:So go ahead. We looked back to our podcast. Oh Lord, it's dangerous here. Okay, I was going to move my entire body.
Sonia:Yes, I was talking about the fair. That is one of the things that happens in the fall around here, and so, yeah, we are going to lose our mics.
Sam:Okay, we're just going to hold, just hold the mic, this is fine. What is happening? This is really terrible.
Sonia:We put too much pressure on it All day long that hasn't been happening, but right now it's happening, it's okay.
Sam:We can just forget about the video. We're going to just be comfortable and try to make this work for now.
Sonia:Okay, oh, no Is that a golden Technical difficulties.
Sam:Are you putting your?
Sonia:arm on it. Yes, you're so smart.
Sam:Okay, go ahead. Talk about the farm, farm, the fair, the fair, the farm. The fair, the fair.
Sonia:No, the fair. Yes, I was talking about the fair. So many people go to the fair. You and I don't really go to the fair, but I did go last year and that's a great place to see clients. So many people go to the fair. It happens what once a year around here, so not unlikely that you would run into someone.
Sam:But what do you do Not go to the fair, yeah, you can't stop living your life in fear of beings found and seen, because it's going to happen.
Sonia:It's going to happen and you said you're okay with your clients seeing you out with your spouse. Yeah, how would you explain it to your spouse?
Sam:I just say that they're a colleague or I work with them, unless the client decides to say something, and it's a discussion that I had.
Sonia:With your spouse.
Sam:Early on. If I ever see anybody out and about I'm not, you won't know. I mean I think you've had the same conversation.
Sonia:Oh yeah, it's a we work together situation and he just knows not to ask.
Sam:Well, that also means like this is a professional interaction.
Sonia:Yep, yep, and yeah, hip abound, yay, can't say anything.
Sam:Well, how do you feel about like having your face on our website, being on social, this podcast? How does that feel for you being?
Sonia:seen, it's all right. Okay, it's a mixed bag of feelings and I always thought that someone saying oh, I have mixed feelings was negative. And it's just recently that I realized that's not a bad thing Mixed feelings could be. It's exciting and also I don't love it all the time, but it's also necessary, right? We want to be out there, we want to be creative, we're having fun. So I may not love it every single day, but for the most part, I do enjoy it. And a website is necessary. How are people going to find us and our services without a website? What about you? How do you feel being on Instagram? Reels, creating reels.
Sam:I am a creative person by nature, but that's normally not in front of a camera. You know I also like back and forth between it being the best and the worst thing I focus on. Is it entertaining for me? Like, do I enjoy doing it? And I think for the most part I do. Like making the reels is so much fun and I'm learning like a new skill in the editing portion and everything and also with this podcast, that that part is fun. Like, if I'm not giggling making the reel, unless it's like a more serious topic, then I'm not doing it right especially for the podcast too.
Sam:So I'm actually fine with that and I have control, right, because I'm taking my own pictures and my own video, so that's that's fine. When we're doing photo shoots, like for the website and stuff, that's a different story, because I don't know what it looks like.
Sonia:And.
Sam:I'm listening to somebody else telling what to do.
Sonia:Which is what we did today. We had a photo shoot today.
Sam:We did with the lovely Kate from, was it? I forget her website?
Sonia:and table. We will insert it in the description, kate was lovely Thunder Horse production, something like that. Sorry, Kate, In case. In case that is incorrect, we will have the right information down below. Um, yeah, we had to do our photos again for our website. We had to get new headshots, get some lovely prom like photos together.
Sam:Well, that was just for fun, that was for fun.
Sonia:I forced it on you, I just the Sears photo Uh-huh, I don't like being creepy. Yes, I don't like having my photos taken at all. When I have control over it, it's a much more comfortable thing.
Sam:Yeah.
Sonia:Um, but Kate was really, really lovely. She was lovely and made it so comfortable and casual, which was great. Um, being seen, I think, on the website, things that are necessary for the, for the business part of our work I'm more okay with than being on social media. That's fair. All my stuff is private. It always has been your personal. Yeah, my personal account. It's always been private. I've never had a public social media account, and so for us to have one for the podcast and our private practice, it's different. For me, mm-hmm, it's different. How are you dealing with that? Just fine, what does fine mean that? I understand that it is needed and I am doing it because A I want to. It's not like I'm doing this because, you're forcing me.
Sonia:That's not it. I want to because I also want to. And B it is a creative outlet. So mixed feelings, Fair Right. How are you feeling about it?
Sam:Fine, fine, it's fine. My overall attitude with most things in life is it is what it is. I exert control where I have it. So doing social media and whatnot, I have control of the video. I have control of the tone, the messaging, all of that stuff. It's a learning process too.
Sam:Sometimes I have to catch myself because I don't care that much. Shame in terms of sharing things. So putting up that boundary for a professional is a newer experience for me. So I have to always filter it. Are you funny because you find it funny, or is it appropriate to go on the social media for your business? I think you're funny. Is it the proper messaging? Are you showing too much yourself? The overarching thing is how would this affect clients watching it? That's always the filter that I use. Will this be damaging in some way? Will this be helpful, hindering all of those questions? So I feel fine being on it. Like I said, I think, before on the podcast, I don't like being recorded. I don't like being visible that way, but it's been so fun for me that it's like exposure therapy. So the more I do it, the less I care.
Sonia:No, fair, absolutely fair, and you are funny.
Sam:Thank you, I think so are you actually. Thank you so much, we're very fun people. I hope so Is what fun people have to say to other people to tell them they're funny.
Sonia:What if you and I are the only people that think we are funny?
Sam:Other people have laughed. We've had, unless we're doing it just to make us feel better. But you can usually tell that's true. Yes, I'm going to go ahead and err on the side. We're both naturally funny people. I should have been a stand up comic.
Sonia:I'd have been great. I don't know if I could be a stand up comic, but I could. However, you do use humor as part of your therapeutic work. Yeah, when it's appropriate.
Sam:Yeah, absolutely yes, always appropriate After like a therapeutic relationship has been established and stuff like that I mean let's, let's face it, life is ridiculous, absolutely. The things that happen to us are absolutely unhinged. Other people are nuts, and I'm going to say that in a non-clinical, unprofessional way. Right, this is ludicrous. The fact that we exist isn't like what, and also why, which is why do we exist so? We're getting very existential, which is part of my bag. And I love it, because it's like, if we can't find a reason why we're here, let's make a reason why we're here and let's make our own meaning for things, and so that's also just like the nature of life.
Sam:It's also my coping skill, for better or worse. Like I'm the one like with gallows, humor and a funeral right, working was in grief and bereavement. You can't be serious all the time.
Sonia:You'll burn out so fast, because it was really heavy stuff.
Sam:Yeah, right, and so even my previous careers in bereavement and end of life is just like. What else can?
Sonia:you do sometimes and I say that I have to laugh or else I will cry right now. And I have to laugh, and obviously you don't do it to disrespect anybody, but for my personal experience. Whatever I'm going through, sometimes I have to laugh at it. Yeah, Humor is a part of my work too. We have to laugh at. I work with a lot of individuals that are navigating challenging relationships and families. Families are wild.
Sam:Wilds, especially when you add, like, different layers of culture into it.
Sonia:Culture, expectations, traditions, non-traditions, like all of that. It's wild. We have to laugh, okay, and I'm sorry. Moms and moms and dads are funny, grandparents are funny, siblings are funny, family is funny sometimes.
Sam:Let's laugh. Yeah, and my whole view of life is essentially like I am here to enjoy Things. This life is short. I it takes a lot of energy for me to take myself so seriously and it's exhausting and it's not entertaining.
Sonia:And it's not fun. I think that's why one of the reasons that you say it's not a big deal for me to see clients outside it in the world is because you're just living your life. This life is too short not to live it.
Sam:Yeah, what I, what I say, it's all made up in the points, don't matter.
Sonia:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sam:The points don't matter, we're just going through this life, just to go through this life and also this is my own view Like other people have different religious beliefs and different cultural beliefs, and why we're here. This is just where I'm coming from.
Sonia:Yeah, it's your opinion. Thank you. I always think of that scene from housewives where Tamar's like it's just my opinion. Have you ever seen it? No, okay, this is off to the left field, but yeah, it's just funny. It's just my opinion.
Sam:It's really entertaining when you say something that's your opinion, and I mean some people use their quote-unquote opinion to attack other people. But when you're just stating your opinion and then people will come for you and be like that's not true. I'm like that's your opinion.
Sonia:Yeah, these are my thoughts, based on how I have lived my life. I'm not telling you how to live your life Right you don't have to laugh if you don't want to, if you want to live a life devoid of joy.
Sam:I guess that's your choice. It's not mine, yeah.
Sonia:Why? Yeah, I appreciate that about you, that you continue to be who you are, regardless of the space, but you do Not change different boundaries different boundaries. There you go, I am me.
Sam:I. So I and I got this from a lovely mentor of ours. Instead of being different people in different situations, I, I am myself, with different levels of boundaries. It's cut in my head. It's like ski ball. What is ski ball? Okay, I don't know. I'm Indian. So ski ball is like Like a fair game. You see an arcade where you have those like little leather bound wooden balls and you roll it up a ramp and it bounces up into different Cylinders and points based on it.
Sonia:Okay, I didn't know that. That's what that was called. Yes, I am familiar, or?
Sam:like a bullseye or something right, and I'm in the middle and I have different layers. And so the people that are on the very outside say like clients or new colleagues or professionals, they get a limited view of Information about me. And so the closer you get, the closer you get to me in my circle, the more you know about me. So you know pretty much everything about me. My very close friends, yes, but say, other professionals or colleagues might be somewhere in the middle, depending on a relationship. So that's all that means. I am myself with varying levels, varying degrees of boundaries and I think that's important.
Sonia:I say I'm saying that a lot, I think.
Sam:I do think there are your thoughts.
Sonia:You are thinking, yes, the person with us the the different levels of boundaries is important because sessions with clients Therapeutic work is not about us. It is about the client. So we don't need to bring our entire lives into sessions. It is not helpful.
Sam:That's a very good point too, because I start out with that very large boundary, mm-hmm, and as clinically appropriate, more of me might come out if it's helpful for the client, right, exactly. They have questions. Except I don't like a lot of clients, I just might omit things.
Sonia:Yeah, because it might just not be a matter.
Sam:It might not help, and then that's a good question. Why is that important to you in the space Right? Why do you need to know?
Sonia:Mm-hmm, like I said, I wanted to know everything about my therapist, but I also respected that you didn't tell me a lot. I googled mine, did you really? Oh, yeah, yeah you're just a solution speech, yeah, which he also was at your graduation and his band. Your therapist is a person too right with bands. Maybe they have a YouTube channel.
Sam:I love knowing that he loves beer and coffee and he loves playing in a band.
Sonia:He has very.
Sam:Very passionate views on a lot of things and it's very supportive.
Sam:He was wonderful, yeah, yeah. And yeah, he was at my graduation, because all the weird things in the universe align to happen to me always, always. It's always the things that are like oh, that's a billion to one odds, it's gonna happen to Sam Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so I walked graduate. We walked graduation, and I'm sitting with my family to get a text from my therapist that I hadn't seen for the last year, uh-huh, saying congratulations on graduating. And I was like, excuse me, wizard, how did you know that I graduated? And I was like a ghost, are you dead? And so I'm like creepily looking around. Of course, just uh-huh.
Sam:He was just there watching a friend or somebody else graduate too, so he just happened to be at the same place at the same time. Yeah small world. Yeah, how do you walked up to me? That wouldn't been okay. I would have had a problem with that. But very respectfully and very sweetly he texted me congratulations. That was kind of a nice thing.
Sonia:Would you prefer if a client saw you out somewhere, if they came up to you, or would you? I know you don't care, but you know, locked eyes. Yeah, you prefer that they say something I mean.
Sam:It's always easier for both of us to not have to explain things if we don't want to yeah. I don't care because, all up to that, what best for the client and what they decide is best for them, yeah, so I'm fine either way, if they want to come up, it's of course easier if I can. Just if they say this is my therapist, I'm like okay, great, there's no hiding stuff. But if they just want to say hire, give a wave. And if somebody I'm with like, oh, who's that? Oh, it's a colleague.
Sonia:Mm-hmm.
Sam:I know them from work. There you go, yeah there you go. Yeah, how about you?
Sonia:Yeah, I, I don't mind. I think one of the best things about our work is we get to help return the power and choice to our clients with the delicious autonomy. Yeah, you have the agency to do what you want. This is our relationship, right, the therapeutic relationship. It's happening because you chose to have sessions with me, right? So I like returning that. It's up to you. If you want to say, hey, great, yeah. If you don't want to, also very respected, I don't have a have a preference either way.
Sam:Yeah, I mean that's a good point too, because so many clients have not been able to exercise autonomy and choice. For a lot of their life. I mean it's not really encouraged too much. I Society, like American Society, american culture is weird to where it's like like do it yourself, but only in the way I say so, yeah, only what's acceptable. Be that as I may, I like giving the opportunity, like it jazzes me up, to be able to be like no, this is all you.
Sam:It's all you have total control on the situation. I will only interject if there's it's something harmful.
Sonia:This is one of the few situations where, if you make eye contact with someone, it is okay to ignore me. Yes, it is absolutely okay to ignore me, and I Am not going to think that you're rude or that you're ignoring me or you have ill intentions. No, it is absolutely okay to ignore me.
Sam:Yeah, I'm talking about that. Intake is helpful because it also leads into and also this is a space where you can practice things Without the fear, for the most part, of wounding me or hurting me. That's my own work to do. It's not your responsibility. You can get mad at me, you can. You can do whatever you need to do. If there is a boundary that's class or is like dangerous or Very hurtful, something severe then that's a conversation, but otherwise, nope, it's not. It's not a big deal at all.
Sonia:Yeah, I mean that's, I'll care for us you don't have to know.
Sam:Yeah, and I mean, people are taught to care for others in that way, and that's what I'm saying.
Sonia:That's, yeah, it's totally different, yeah, so beautiful. Of course this there's a societal expectation of oh you know, someone say hi, say this yeah, are you? Rude. Do that or you're being rude like that's not Behavior of a well-mannered person. In this case, we don't care, or at least I don't care. I can't speak for other therapists, but I don't, it doesn't matter if we care.
Sam:Yeah, honestly, yeah, right, cuz it's their choice. And if a therapist does be like, hey, mike, it's nice to see you in session next week, then that's a whole different.
Sonia:That is a different, that is a breaking HIPAA.
Sam:It is that's breaking privacy laws.
Sonia:Mm-hmm.
Sam:Don't do it. Don't do it, just tip of the day. Don't break HIPAA.
Sonia:What do you call it? Hot tip hot. Take hot tip hot Sam's.
Sam:Sam's unprofessional opinion. So I hear a thing in session in my unprofessional opinion.
Sonia:Don't break HIPAA.
Sam:Don't break HIPAA. Great lesson of the day. You're welcome. I mean, sadly, some people need reminding. Of course, it's always good to have a little refresher. I'm just here. You know I don't offer CEOs, but you know someday maybe. Just a one-hour class, feel like, don't be an idiot, mm-hmm, okay, stop.
Sonia:You never did you answer the question of what happens if you run into a client at the naked spa. Did we just skirt around that?
Sam:Oh, that's a conversation for session. If they come back, if they see me in a naked spa and they walk up to me and are like what do we do?
Sam:It will just be what it is, but it's an encouragement to talk about it in session what this means now for the therapeutic space and how you felt mm-hmm Because it doesn't matter really how I felt, mm-hmm, how you felt in the moment seeing your therapist business swing into the wind. Yeah, you come in. It's like one of those hot sand rooms and you're just like laying down on the ground. She's like your therapist has just splayed out or your doctor, oh my god right. Yeah.
Sonia:Okay, so for you it's everything is a conversation, everything's a conversation. Yeah.
Sam:I like everything is fuel for session. Yeah, that's probably not where a client is gonna see me, but well, no, and see, it sounds like I go to the naked spa like every week and I don't. I haven't been there in years, but it's always an option because we have a whole bunch of really lovely day spots where clothing is is not accepted.
Sonia:Yeah, and don't be ashamed of your body.
Sam:It is what it is. We're all well, when you're at the, the female identifying female presenting once it's just like all ages, all body types. No one cares and it's, so it's freeing actually.
Sonia:Yeah, it sounds lovely, actually is Maybe someday.
Sam:There's no pressure, but I won't.
Sonia:I won't force you to go to the naked spa, but you know where you can find me huh, the pumpkin patch.
Sam:Yay, yay.
Sonia:We'll go. I'm excited about it. Good, great, okay, that's it. That's it. Thank you for joining us on the mental break it down. Bye.
Sam:Mental break it down is produced and edited by Sam and Sonia. Our logo was created by the amazing art of andoi. If you have any questions, comments or have a topic you want discussed on the podcast, email us at mental break it down at gmail calm, or connect with us on Instagram at mental break it down. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Nothing said in this podcast constitutes personal or professional consultation, therapy, diagnosis or creates a counselor-client relationship. It is not intended to provide medical or mental health advice. The views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests are theirs alone. Thanks for listening. Bye you.