Looking for a break from traditional therapy? Andre St. Hilaire, an outdoor therapist, invites us to step outside the four walls of conventional therapy and experience the healing power of nature. Andre's innovative approach marries the serenity of the outdoors with therapeutic techniques, providing an environment of comfort and vulnerability that encourages deeper introspection and self-discovery.
We chat about Andre's distinctive practice, witnessing firsthand the transformative role of nature in facilitating life's cycles of change and transition. Andre opens up about the evolution of his therapeutic style, the shift to outdoor sessions, and the importance of cultivating trust and connection with his clients. He offers a raw and intimate reflection of his counseling journey, sharing lessons learned from grad school, private practice, and his experiences in outdoor therapy.
As we delve deeper into the conversation, Andre illustrates the importance of authenticity in therapy, offering insights into how to make therapy more relatable and real. He shares his venture from a different career into becoming an outdoor therapist and the hurdles he overcame along the way. For those contemplating a private practice or seeking alternative therapy methods, this episode promises to be a source of inspiration and enlightenment. The journey might be uncomfortable and risky, but as Andre asserts, showing up for oneself opens up a world of endless possibilities. Join us on this captivating episode of Mental Break it Down, where we unmask the potential of nature as a therapeutic tool.
Andre St. Hilaire, LMHCA, Open Road Wellness
Website: https://www.openroad-wellness.com/
Instagram: @open.road.wellness
Instagram @mentalbreakitdown
Email: mentalbreakitdown@gmail.com
Logo Artwork: artofandoy.com
Connect with us of you have questions, want to be on the podcast, or have topics you want discussed!
Looking for a break from traditional therapy? Andre St. Hilaire, an outdoor therapist, invites us to step outside the four walls of conventional therapy and experience the healing power of nature. Andre's innovative approach marries the serenity of the outdoors with therapeutic techniques, providing an environment of comfort and vulnerability that encourages deeper introspection and self-discovery.
We chat about Andre's distinctive practice, witnessing firsthand the transformative role of nature in facilitating life's cycles of change and transition. Andre opens up about the evolution of his therapeutic style, the shift to outdoor sessions, and the importance of cultivating trust and connection with his clients. He offers a raw and intimate reflection of his counseling journey, sharing lessons learned from grad school, private practice, and his experiences in outdoor therapy.
As we delve deeper into the conversation, Andre illustrates the importance of authenticity in therapy, offering insights into how to make therapy more relatable and real. He shares his venture from a different career into becoming an outdoor therapist and the hurdles he overcame along the way. For those contemplating a private practice or seeking alternative therapy methods, this episode promises to be a source of inspiration and enlightenment. The journey might be uncomfortable and risky, but as Andre asserts, showing up for oneself opens up a world of endless possibilities. Join us on this captivating episode of Mental Break it Down, where we unmask the potential of nature as a therapeutic tool.
Andre St. Hilaire, LMHCA, Open Road Wellness
Website: https://www.openroad-wellness.com/
Instagram: @open.road.wellness
Instagram @mentalbreakitdown
Email: mentalbreakitdown@gmail.com
Logo Artwork: artofandoy.com
Connect with us of you have questions, want to be on the podcast, or have topics you want discussed!
Welcome to Mental Break it Down, a podcast for therapists and the therapy curious, where we dig into all things mental health and mental health adjacent. We're so happy you're here, let's jump in.
Sonia:Well, hello everyone. Welcome to Mental Break it Down. I'm Sonia, I'm Sam.
Andre:And I'm Andre.
Sonia:Welcome. Today we have Andre St.
Andre:St Hilaire, I wanted to get it. Yeah, you got there, yay.
Sonia:And thanks so much for joining us. We're going to talk about your work and what you do, and I'm really excited that you're here.
Andre:Thanks for having me. This is so much fun. Introduce yourself. Yeah, so my name is Andre and I'm an outdoor therapist, so what that looks like is you know, we build the ship in the air, but we go outside. We I've taken clients to local parks. I've taken clients to the waterfront. I've actually met with a client on a paddle board. That was super cool. Oh, that's awesome.
Andre:Yeah, and I'm doing things that are a little bit well out of the office, out of the box. I predominantly work with clients experiencing anxiety, stress, burnout, and my main population that I've found that I love working with is me, so it's been super fun.
Andre:I've started my practice this summer and my focus is really expanding as I get deeper into it, but I find that the work I love doing is going out in nature, being in the moment and taking clients who might be therapy resistant into a space where, hey, like we're doing, we're talking, we're moving, we're experiencing, and let's make this whole experience of therapy a little more real, a little bit more comfortable, a little less. I'm in an office and there's fluorescence on it.
Sam:Right, yeah, that's usually what we're all used to. It's the sitting across from somebody for 50 plus minutes and just trying to like, sometimes white-knucklet, because some people aren't good at just sitting still or sitting in one place for that long yeah.
Andre:I think that one of the things that I found in the clients that I work with is most of them are busy, active people by nature. Right, it's not people that aren't going outside, it's not people that aren't doing a lot of things, they're people that are super active. Many of them are cyclists. Some of them I work with one who does some rock climbing. There are clients that do active things, so it's not about you know. I hesitate and I'm always very clear to present like I am not an outdoor guide, like we're not going white, white rutter rafting?
Andre:We are not. You know, maybe at some point we might get on a bike, but we're not like doing the Tour de France over here. The goal is to be in nature, notice the stillness, notice what happens in nature, because so much of what happens in nature applies to real life.
Sonia:We live in such a beautiful place to do that, I'm curious. So outdoor therapy was that a conscious decision because of what you really enjoy, or were you seeing the need for it?
Andre:Sure, that is such a good question. So when I first decided I was a school counselor for 10 years and when I first realized I needed to make a change, I kind of thought and I was on a trip to Joshua Tree and I actually had that stillness around me where I thought, what, what? Okay, I'm going to make a change. How do I invent my dream job? Right, and that's kind of where I started and I thought I invented outdoor therapy for a minute. Until so real talk, you know this isn't something I'm.
Sam:This is a genius idea and everybody's like. I do that too.
Andre:And then it's like ah, this exists.
Sam:No, we're doing it but that moment when I really thought I had a breakthrough but you're like, I am such a genius and I am so special that I invented a new type of I invented it and this modality I just created, no you know.
Andre:but what happened was really realizing that, the kind of the clarity I had in that moment of I want to do something different, and I want to kind of create a space which I didn't create nature but I want to invite people into a space where they're able to have the clarity that I'm having right now. That was kind of something that was a wake-up call from you know, I want to do something different. I'm going to lean into the adventure, lean into how I like to do my life, where I feel most fulfilled, and let's make work, which in my case, is therapy, merged with that.
Sam:It's kind of like a spin off of the. You know the tale is old as time I became a therapist because I went through therapy and it was so helpful for me and I wanted to do it for other people.
Andre:Yeah, I relate to that.
Sonia:Thanks. Sometimes therapy as we discussed it can feel really clinical, and so sitting with someone face to face, looking each other in the eyes and speaking, depending what your client is going through, it can be a really pressure filled experience. So I really love that you do the side by side really, because when you're walking through nature or you're sitting next to a lake you're not necessarily face to face and sometimes that breaks the barrier and allows for more vulnerability.
Andre:I think what's like so important is that the therapist shows up as themselves, right, like I realized in my career as a school counselor, like I am never going to be the person that like scheduling and talking to parents and all the things of that aspect, and that was a challenging realization. As a therapist, I know I'm never going to be the guy that wears a tie. I would have to learn how to tie the tie. That's probably not going to happen, but I will be the person that's willing to get a little dirty and be cold out with you. Let's get rained on. So I think showing up to therapy in a space where, you know, in nature we can't be anything but ourselves, yeah Right, and I think that that is so important. You know there's not a. Let's get formal and sit down and really stare at each other. Let's go do something. Let's notice what's happening around us.
Andre:A lot of outdoor therapy is about noticing and being just present in the moment, which I think is the most challenging thing for the people that I work with, for myself, for, I think, just our society right now, just seeing still, I want to go back to something that you said.
Sam:I will never be the person that, like puts on a tie and there's an overarching like meta message in our profession that here's the box you have to go in.
Andre:Yes.
Sam:And it is changing. I've noticed that with newer therapists coming in, that everybody's like. Actually that doesn't align with me anymore. But I'm curious if you could talk more about that realization and how you came to grips with it.
Andre:Sure, because it can be so hard. You know, for me I don't think it was something that I came to grips with. I kind of knew, like I am pretty informal, I am someone that you know if I'm working with a client, we might go over time, we might be a little messy, we might dive into a lot of stuff that doesn't follow the script, like I think that's just my personality. So when I was like, let's create my dream job, I wanted to create something where I could show up just as I am every day.
Sam:So you're not forcing yourself to do something.
Andre:Well, because that doesn't work so well. I've learned that you can only do that for yourself. Yeah, I've learned that.
Sam:And life is messy and life is chaos.
Andre:Yeah.
Sam:Why not embrace it if that's what you're comfortable with?
Andre:And I think that that's the lesson of nature therapy. Right, if we're going to go outside, we are going to adapt to being rained on. We are going to adapt to you could trip, you could fall. There's risks of it, and I think that this seems true of private practice. There are risks of private practice. There are risks of changing seasons. That's a huge part of nature therapy. We're leaving summer, we're going into fall. Most of the clients I work with are your life transition, so a lot of nature therapy, too, is. It's all the metaphors around it. Sometimes it's corny and it's a little cheesy, but it's real.
Sonia:We have a little cheese in life.
Andre:It's very cheesy so does this mean?
Sonia:sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
Sam:She did.
Sonia:Does this mean that if someone signs up and you're their therapist and they agree to outdoor therapy, do you ever sit in an office?
Andre:No, I don't have an office. There are times that we meet online, right, because there is and I've learned this through a workshop I took. I'm actually taking some classes in the fall at Lewis and Clark College in Eco Therapy I'm working on a certificate program but we do at times, need to meet virtually. There's content and therapy that's sensitive and if we go to a park we could run into someone, right? So I wanna work with a client and first establish some groundwork, like do we have a relationship? Do we have a connection? Do we have a sense where you feel safe with me before I'm this guy? That's like, hey, meet me in a park.
Sam:Hi, I'm a stranger, tell me everything.
Andre:Exactly outside, Outside.
Sam:With all those strangers.
Andre:But look at this water Aren't you calm, be calm.
Andre:Exactly so. The nature therapy, I believe, enhances the session. I think it takes it to a deeper depth. But we have to have the groundwork of knowing each other, knowing the topics that might come up, knowing the extent of what we're working on. So I don't work with a client outside until we've met at least three to four times when I feel, hey, I'm comfortable to know that these are the topics that might come up. I feel like if they come up in nature, I'll be ready to handle it. We'll be in a place that feels natural to handle it. Also, the client trusting me, knowing who I am, having a sense of what therapy's gonna be like, so virtual and outdoors.
Sam:And we definitely wanna learn more about exactly what you do, so we'll do another episode diving deeper Love it. And I'm curious cause you said you were a school counselor before. So tell us about your evolution through grad school, school counseling and now your own private practice.
Andre:Sure. So I went to grad school now six, nine, 11, 12 years ago, right. So when I went initially I was, you know, I'll be honest, I don't think I exactly knew what I wanted to be when I grew up.
Andre:I knew I wanted to help people. I believe in the work of therapy. It was something that I had accessed in my life and I felt it was super valuable, Like I know that I care about this. So my first job and I think maybe it's the nature therapist and me is kind of willing to take whatever comes up and adapt to it- it was an elementary school counselor. I showed up as an elementary school counselor with really almost zero experience working with kids, and I dove in.
Andre:And I actually ended up really loving you know.
Sam:Well, what we know of you? You're also kind, of light and fun, loving and go with the flow, so that feels like a good fit for kiddos.
Andre:It was playful, it was fun, it was experimental, and I did that job for four years and then I was a junior high counselor for six years. So at that time, not really knowing much about junior high kids, not knowing much about what a junior high looked like, you know so a lot of. I think. Maybe it's just something about me as the art of showing up and adapting.
Sam:I just had a vision of you just walking and be like hello, fellow teens.
Andre:It was very that like a little Is this cool?
Sam:Am I cool? Are we vibing no cap?
Andre:Like there was some Mrs Frizzle energy, Like I wasn't allowed the lizard, but there was a little. Let's show up on another here. Here's my bus. Let's go to the center of the core of the universe. Kids, and you know I had a lot of fun being a school counselor. But you know, schools have changed over the years, the vibe of it's changed and I've grown up, so and you worked in schools like through the pandemic I did yeah, that was yeah, it wasn't cute.
Sam:Yeah, we like to keep it cute. Yeah, we want to keep.
Andre:yeah, I wish everyone well in schools right now, not my scene.
Sonia:Yeah, it was so out of it, it was a change.
Andre:Yeah, and I think that that's the thing that working with clients going through transitions sometimes it's giving yourself permission to reinvent yourself, right. And you know, I showed up in grad school. I kind of went in like you know, hey, the whole world, the rest is still unwritten. Natasha Bedingfield who what's next? Right, we're going to have to choose what's next, not knowing, and I think sometimes in life we have to do that. Then, as a school counselor, there was a lot of like. Here I am. I'm just going to jump in the deep end.
Andre:And I think right now in private practice it's doing that again right. Like here we are let's figure it out and we'll invent it and we'll create it and we'll enjoy it and we'll make it. Let's this time around, let's make it my dream job.
Sam:I really appreciate your energy because it's not a we'll figure it out in like a controlling way. It's very much like the flow.
Andre:It's fluid.
Sam:It's like we'll see what happens, it'll be fine.
Andre:And we might have some mistakes that happen along the way too.
Sonia:Yeah, probably will, right, for sure it's almost guaranteed.
Andre:Well, yeah, it's already happened.
Sam:Yes, how was your grad school experience so?
Andre:you know it was-.
Sam:If you can remember yeah, it was a hot minute, the shade. So okay, let's rewind the clock.
Andre:It was good, so I went to the University of Puget Sound. It was a good experience. It was an evening program at the time.
Sam:I was also in hindsight.
Andre:you know I was really young going in. I was I just I took a year off after earning my bachelor's and then, kind of serendipitously, saw a poster to restaurants. I was like, oh, maybe I would be good at that, let's try it out. So you know, sometimes we me, you know you just explore life and see where it takes you.
Andre:You know, I think that was kind of a key thing. But I did know that I wanted to work with people. I did believe in the work of therapy and I knew that that, at my core, is who I am. But you know, my grad school experience was good. I wish in hindsight I'd been a little older you know To really, you know, had the life experience to get out of it what maybe I didn't have at the time. You know, I was 20, 22, 23 in grad school, oh so young, I was a baby.
Andre:Yeah, yeah, I was a baby in grad school. So in hindsight, you know, I think I'm now being in my late oops, 30s looking back.
Sonia:I'm sorry was that bad.
Andre:Yeah, no, that's a good thing. That's a good thing.
Sam:How dare you? And, being in my late I'm older than you.
Andre:You're good, but being in my late 30s and looking back, you know I wish I had more life.
Sam:my experience to pair with my grad school experience, you know, because so much of the the wisdom can help.
Andre:Yeah. So I think in some ways I kind of have my journey as a counselor. I hate the word journey, but my journey as a counselor I started in elementary. I got to, you know, kind of grow up and then go to secondary school, and now I'm feeling like I'm kind of in this post-adolescence of therapy life.
Sam:You traveled alongside your students.
Andre:I traveled a long time aside my students, so it's kind of I think it naturally evolved the way it should have you know.
Sonia:You seem really comfortable in it now, though, as I know there's discomfort in private practice and being in a certain area of therapy for so long, but you seem really comfortable and grounded in where you are, you know.
Andre:I did take some acting in high school, so some of it's that right, oh, so this is all fake, it's all fake.
Sonia:That's sad.
Andre:You know, I think sometimes I go back to and I can't cite the source accurately, I won't misquote it. But there was something I read in my journey to make this decision, which is kind of the idea of leaving the short Right, which is another like nature therapy metaphor right, you've got to leave the short.
Sam:We're seeing a trail.
Andre:We're seeing a trail. I something I discovered this year that's a personal hobby is cold plunging, which is where you go out into the sound.
Sam:So I knew that you had problems. I'm one of those people. Now you do that to yourself on purpose it's actually apparently so good for you. Of course I get it.
Andre:On the scale of woo, woo I am. Yeah, now you see where I fall. But there is that idea of can you let go of security? Can? You let go of the way things should go.
Sam:Well, that whole growth comes it through discomfort. Well, yeah.
Andre:Can you lean into the trust of? I might not know how this is gonna work out. It may not work out perfectly, but I will be in the middle of the water and I'll figure it out. Can you trust?
Sonia:yourself? Yeah, because when's the last time you learned something and it was comfortable and easy?
Andre:You know, and for me working in the schools, schools are very scripted. Schools have a calendar, schools have guaranteed paycheck, Schools have a rhythm, a so much structure. Well, they literally teach structure right. There are six periods a day and the bell goes off with private practice. You're inventing, you're creating, you're responding. You're in that moment where it's not all scripted out for you, so a lot of it is acceptance.
Sam:What has been the most surprising thing about private practice for you?
Andre:That's such a good question. How relatable people are the clients I work with, just how true and honest their stories are, and sometimes when they're sharing something I'm like you are a step ahead of me on that. Like you know, I think as a therapist.
Sam:I'm not an expert.
Andre:People are their expert on their own lives, so how much I've learned from clients has been surprising and rewarding. I think something else is how creative of a field it is. You know. It is really something where you know I'm so glad that I have so much of my career left where I can go get training in this other thing that I'm super curious about. But I can't do it all at once.
Andre:You know, there's a lot of options. There's a lot of, you know, I've met other therapists I've met along the way are doing things are so interesting to me. So it's just the creativity, the openness, the expansiveness of it.
Sonia:Yeah, it's not what it used to be. I think we're all doing it our own way and maybe that might not work for everyone, but it works for us. And that's the whole point of having your own business, your own private practice.
Andre:And I think it's you know, I think there's not that I've arrived.
Sam:Say more about that.
Andre:You know, I think with so many jobs, even within the therapy world, where it's like, okay, I applied for the job, I got the job, hired, the checks coming, the I know what the rest of my life looks like. I know what the rest of my career looks like. We are constantly in the middle of the water, treading, water, swimming.
Andre:No definitive starting point no definitive and no definitive end, right Like it's. I think that's the thing about private practice, where that I've learned in the short time I've been doing it is we're in the middle of it and I and we may always be in the middle of it, and that's okay and that's exciting.
Sonia:You signed up to be a lifelong learner in this profession and I really love that. You said that you were learning from your clients and I don't think we talk about that enough that the learning goes both ways. Of course we impart our thoughts and our clinical background with our clients, but it's it goes both ways.
Sam:You learn so much. You learn so much you can see a situation from the outside and see all the moving parts, at least what they give you, and that is so helpful sometimes to be outside of it.
Andre:And I think it's so rewarding too to kind of. You know, I'm a, even though I'm an outdoor therapist, even though I love cycling and cold plunging and hiking and dogs and you know all the outdoor things.
Sam:I'm also totally indoorsy and I think you kind of have to be both here. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Andre:And there was a therapist who we both know, haley Castillo she posted something recently is asking a therapist like hey, do you love reality TV?
Sam:And I've been thinking about that.
Andre:And you know, I think, as a therapist, we are somebody who it's like we're consigating to watch this series of someone's life.
Sam:Yeah.
Andre:And how it unfolds.
Sam:Every session is an episode.
Andre:Yeah and exactly. And we don't get to know previous seasons. We don't necessarily get to know what's the next episode.
Sonia:Yeah, you may not have the subscription.
Sam:We may not have the subscription.
Andre:But you know, we get to dive into the snapshot of what's going on with someone and just that's beautiful, fun work.
Sam:I never thought of it that way. It's so accurate. And so creative. It's like here's we're together, here's at seasons one through three. I have no idea how you got here or where you will go, but and maybe that's why it feels so unsatisfactory if somebody leaves and you don't know why, or there wasn't a finality to it, because there was no closure and I can't, and that's the thing about as in therapy is like we are.
Andre:I think our task is to find the patterns. When we can't binge watch the series, right, it's to find, you know, what is this person's core story, what is this person's narrative? What is coming up for this person that is anchored in their history, that is Maybe other characters who will never meet right will never meet the other characters of their life.
Andre:We don't know what's next for them. How can we kind of help them shape what, what their future episodes might be like? And and find their place in the moment they're in. That, I think, and that's the key work.
Sam:It's funny. It's making me think of you know, when you are on Netflix and you binge like all six Seasons something, and then it's very blatant, like right in your face, the patterns. You're like this person cannot hold a relationship down. They need to get this together. They keep making the same mistakes, but as you're watching it slowly, it's not so apparent, but we have to keep our eyes out for those types of patterns.
Andre:And I think that that well, that's what's been fun for me with working with clients outdoors is you don't know what's gonna happen. You're introducing a catalyst, right You're? You're introducing something that you're not in control of as a therapist, right You're? It's not. You know there's some modalities that and this is where I haven't been in grad school for a moment, I can't think of a specific example but you know where we're using scripted techniques or we're using interventions. There's procedures are procedure there. That's the word procedurally based.
Andre:Yeah, when I take a client outside you, you're kind of bringing them into a moment that is this is just like real life. They don't know the variables that will happen next in in their life. So it's it's working with them in a way to Show them their inner adaptability that they might not know they have, showing them their ability to find comfort in uncomfortable situations that they might not know to access. So, yeah, I think you know nature therapy even. You know Tell the third, tell her whatever it is. We're seeing the client in a really real life Sand lab.
Sonia:I'm so excited you decided to do this for yourself and for your future and for your clients.
Sam:It sounds so aligned with you to, because, I mean, therapy is Unpredictable, you can't control it and you've embraced you like I just live in Chaos like good good chaos right. Like I said, your energy is very much just like it's totally fine and this is fun and let's learn from it. And you're taking just like the Unpredictability of even just regular sessions and you're just plucking it and putting it into a very uncontrollable situation and you're like, hey, let's just vibe with this and see where it's going. Well, can we learn?
Andre:no, I learned again. You know that moment when you think you invented something and then realize it already exists so I took a Branding, and not not so much branding, but like a therapy marketing workshop. And you know I worked with the presenter and they were like what is?
Andre:it you do. And then I think what I landed on and it's not just necessarily Outdoor therapy, although that's core, I believe it the work that I'm interested in is experiential therapy, right, experimental there, right. Whatever the experience we have in this session, whatever the experiment that happens when we go outside, that is the lessons of that, the take home of that, that's what the client's gonna use when they go to their real life, which is also an experiment that they don't have control over. Whatever shows up for them in their office, whatever shows up for them in their relationship, their friendships, their parent, that's also a sand lab.
Sam:Yeah, cuz then therapy the therapy room is like a little microcosm. It's its own little environment. It's controlled, yeah part, so I can understand that it'd be helpful to learn how to deal with situations Outside, in the real world, where it feels more applicable. There's not that that translation, maybe that has to happen.
Andre:Yeah, exactly.
Sam:So Sonya and I have described this there at this podcast as like an audio visual scrapbook.
Andre:So okay it's.
Sam:It's pretty selfish. Yep for us because we like to look back and see how far we've come and how we've grown, and also now force people to do it with us.
Andre:Oh, this is great.
Sam:Great. So I'm gonna implement a question and we'll see that sticks going forward. So when you imagine the future, where do you imagine yourself being or doing?
Andre:Oh Cuz. I want you to be able to look back on this and say, oh, I wonder how much of this happened.
Sam:I think that's a question, that's gonna stick.
Andre:I think of it. I want to go deeper into the work I'm doing like I want to. I'm taking some grad courses, lewis and Clark, in adventure therapy and.
Andre:I want to take Just take the risk a little bit higher. Quite honestly, you know right now we're going outside. I Want to be able to do something like and this is actually something that is a long-term goal of mine, that I need to Work out and figure out how I want to do it and how I want to play out but I would like to take my clients on something like a bike tour.
Sonia:Hmm.
Andre:I would like to take my clients and do something that is outside of their comfort zone, even more so than mean outside. We live in the Northwest, the clients I work with, our generally active people, they're comfortable being outside, right, so it's not introducing that much of a catalyst. It might be different for therapy, but I want I want to take the bar a little higher and say what would it look like for us to maybe do a retreat where we're deeper in the woods or deeper in, you know, a remote setting or Doing an activity that maybe challenges you a little bit? So I want to increase the challenge, I want to increase the risk and take, take the aspect of adventure a little deeper.
Sonia:So then that means you have to be comfortable with that as well. Yeah, so not just your clients exactly, yeah.
Andre:so I think you know I'm a. In my personal life I'm a cyclist. That's like my number one passion. I've Thousands of miles, I've done all sorts of things with them and I think if I could take bikes into you, my work with clients.
Andre:I'm also a big dog guy. I've got a lot of work to do on that, you know, maybe for liability purposes, but I want to take, you know, let's bring a dog into the session, let's, let's get even more creative, right? Let's? Let's not let's take the limits off of therapy. I think I recently connected with another therapist who I she does basketball with her, and so and I thought that was super cool.
Andre:So I just think that I want to take, take the script away of which therapy should be and work with clients where they're at, and and in a fun, adventurous way that yeah, that I think really moves the maybe the stigma of therapy, moves a discomfort of therapy, particularly because I'm at this point mostly working with men and and I think that there are a lot of barriers for men to do therapy. So I want to introduce that element of fun and creativity that might make therapy more like hey, actually, you know what that? That's not such a no go for me.
Sonia:It looks like more training, more learning, more growth in in you as a person and as a therapist in the future.
Andre:Yeah, I think another aspect I want to work on is my own knowledge of the mind-body connection and nervous system. So many the clients I work with you know so many of, just as I'm networking with other therapists and learning that you know it's a physical experience, it's a felt experience. The motion sometimes, the emotions and the stock emotions are literally making people sick and clenched and tight and dysregulated, and so I'm seeking more training in that area too. I want more, more to be more. Right now, I'm probably more the guy of like hey, did you know you have a nervous system? That matters.
Sam:I want.
Andre:FYI. Cool anecdote, you should Google it.
Sam:You know you have a body.
Andre:Yeah, you got that thing right.
Sam:We gotta get these talking.
Andre:Yeah, I'll get back to you on what to do with that. I want to deepen my knowledge in that area where I could say, actually I have some expertise, not just this is something I don't care about. So I'm actively working on that too.
Sam:What about the structure in the future of your private practice? You gonna stay solo.
Andre:Oh, that is such a good question. I at some point would love to you know I'm getting supervision right now. I'm loving the process. I would love to supervise and mentor others In terms of being a business partner, like you two are. I think at this point I would drive someone crazy and I don't. I need to be compassionate and not do that to someone, because I am.
Andre:I am kind of a free flowing person when it comes to running my business and figuring it out, and I think most people probably need more predictability than is my natural personality. Yeah, I want the flexibility, so I don't see growing my business with other therapists, but I would absolutely love to mentor and supervise someone and teach others that are maybe coming up. You know a little younger than me that hey, you don't have to do this in any point to go away. Let's choose who you are and create your dream job.
Sonia:So needed in our profession, I think is also. It's a great way to give back to our professions, to just supervise the next generation, and it's part of our ethics.
Sam:Yeah.
Andre:Yeah, so you know, see me in five years. Hopefully that's coming up right. Yeah, we'll have some little mini Andre out in the woods. I love that. I'm using some risk.
Sonia:So, andre, if someone out there listening, watching is thinking of returning to private practice or starting their private practice, maybe you're going to school or going to school. What piece of advice would you give?
Andre:Yeah, good question.
Sam:He's gassing us up on the question. Yeah, yeah, yeah, good question.
Andre:Can I ask a good question? You know? I went to a friend's workshop recently and they had a quote that I'm gonna butcher, so I'm just gonna acknowledge that not attributed to anyone.
Sam:It's not butchering, it's paraphrasing.
Andre:It's paraphrasing, yeah, but it kind of got the idea of life begins at the end of your comfort zone.
Sam:Mm-hmm.
Andre:Right. So if you're waiting for it to feel comfortable, if you're waiting for it to be easy, if you're waiting for it to be financially like all laid out, if you're waiting for the clients to be in a row for you, don't wait, you just gotta go in.
Sam:You gotta make it happen Hope you're like waiting.
Andre:You're gonna wait right. It's gonna be uncomfortable. You're gonna be at the edge of your comfort zone. Embrace that. That's where and I think that's where I am right now.
Sonia:See, yeah, we're in that spot, we are at the edge of our comfort zone.
Andre:That's where our clients are too, you know, in meeting with us.
Sam:Oh yeah, to come to therapy is very. There's discomfort lots.
Andre:They're at the edge of their discomfort zone. I hope you know there were times where in my previous career I thought I was comfortable when I was actually bored.
Sam:Ooh. You know, there were times when it's better the beast, you know right.
Andre:Exactly where I thought I was comfortable when I was actually stuck. So embrace the discomfort, jump in, and it might not be the day after you decide to do it, but you will find your way. Show up for yourself.
Sam:Because I mean, let's be honest, grad school is hella uncomfortable.
Andre:Yeah.
Sam:It is being watched, critiqued, judged, graded, of course, so you're under a microscope. Starting a private practice is terrifying but, also exhilarating and exciting it can be. All of this is discomfort, but in the best possible way, at least for me.
Andre:You know when I did my grad school so long ago that you know I think I went into it not knowing what it could look like Because it was just an extension of undergrad, exactly. You know, I worked a year in between undergrad and going to my grad program and there was. I think it was such a small gap of time and I was so young that you know everything was an unknown. Mm-hmm.
Sam:Right your entire life.
Andre:Exactly so. In some ways I'm kind of returning to that moment. You know, I was in a career that was more established and more predictable. So I think you know I'm returning again to the unknown, but it feels exciting.
Sam:Yeah, and there's so much possibility. Right, you try something. You're like, that doesn't feel good for me. You just don't do it anymore. You stop, and that's perfectly fine, Quit. Great, yeah, it's not your bag, and you can make it. You're like oh I, actually it turns out I don't feel comfortable doing one-on-one work all the time. You can do so many other things with your license.
Andre:It's a constant reinventing.
Sam:Mm-hmm. That's where the fun is, though. Yeah, because this can look like anything you want it to.
Andre:You know, I didn't know when I went into starting my private practice. I don't think, to be honest, I don't know that, like I'd heard the word niche right. Like I you know, but I didn't know. Like, oh, you really need to define. Like you cannot be the therapist for everyone. You cannot be the therapist of all topics. I've tried, you two know that yes. I've tried, but I think that there's an aspect where you, as a therapist, have to bring yourself To the therapy.
Andre:Yes you know, and I think in so much of grad school, we're tied. You know all the risks of that. All the you know it's not about self-disclosure.
Sam:Your identity has to be separate from the process was tabula rasa, blank slate, exactly, exactly, and I know.
Andre:I think we're in an era where we have to you have to find who you are and show up as that person and the clients that need that.
Sonia:That is you niche is being yourself in therapy and they will find you they will find you who you are Holds so much value in the therapeutic process for clients. And I don't know about you, andre, but our grad program it was very much. You should be able to help anybody and everybody that walks through the door feels Actually really misaligned it is well. For me it feels very misaligned. I think there are therapists out there that are generalists, but for me Doesn't work for me.
Andre:It feels overwhelming.
Sam:I think yeah and you and I'm gonna say you, but I mean I mean me that when somebody comes this is here's my issue, even though I'm like that's not really my niche, but I could there's always that it's not a ick feeling, but it feels unbalanced because it's not your bag and you know you're not gonna show up and be as helpful as you possibly could if it Was somebody in your nation. So there's a power and going. You know what?
Sam:I actually am not the best fit for this, but I know people who might be right and so referring out, and then when you keep the people that are really aligned with you, you just it's in your bones and I think it's not a struggle.
Andre:That's. What's been really fun for me to see is who are the people that Are my people yeah, it's been so fun right to just to work. You know, not everybody. Outdoor therapy is not right for everyone. Yeah right, summer and it's some people. You know, I believe in challenging the comfort zone, but some people, the work they need to do, they need to be supported where they're at and this might be too much of a job, that's okay.
Sam:Well, it sounds like you're meeting them where they're at. The people that you see are naturally inclined and gravitate towards this activity.
Andre:Exactly, and I think that's the thing like for me. It's a natural way to show up and incorporate this into my practice. For the clients I'm working with, I think it feels natural to Some of them. It might stretch them in ways that they're open to, but you know, not everyone that is it for and I think that that's okay.
Sonia:Yeah, I'm gonna go to therapist for everyone, and it feels it can be harmful If you're trying to be a therapist for someone that you actually don't have the knowledge base for that, or the credentials, or you, just it's out of scope, exactly thank you, your scope of practice.
Sam:I can find words for other people, but I can't find them for myself in the moment.
Andre:Yeah, I think that's. That is that right. There is what being a therapist that is what you mean.
Sam:This is yes, and then I'm like I mean this people like what are you talking about that?
Andre:is the art of being a therapist?
Sam:I think is do for others when you can't do 100%, but isn't that the fun?
Andre:that's the fun of it.
Andre:You know, I think one thing that's been super fun for me too, is to Discover the world of working with men. That was not, I think, in the back of my head. I was open to it and I was interested in it. I was curious about it. The majority of my clients are men and that has been so rewarding and, and I think it's been interesting, meeting them in outdoor therapy and Seeing how therapy works for them with you know, which, I think, because men have a different experience with emotions and men have a different upbringing in terms of what's comfortable and okay to share and how to process so so that's been really fun that I didn't know.
Sonia:I want to hear more about that in our other episode where we talk more about your niche. Okay so we're gonna dive into that.
Sam:But for right now. If people are interested in connecting with you or seeing you as a client, where can they find you?
Andre:so that good question. I am on open road. Wellness is the name of my practice. I'm a cyclist. That's kind of where I went with the open road idea and I met there's a hyphen in it. I know I didn't get my my domain in time.
Sam:It's the chaos. Open road hyphen wellness calm great Are you on any social profession.
Andre:I am. I'm on psychology today. I'm on mental health match. I'm on good therapy. Therapy, din and Open. Help me out open. I'm open path, thank you.
Sam:Are you on Instagram or anything?
Andre:I am on Instagram. I'm at open road wellness. On Instagram, you'll see pictures of my dog, pictures of my bike, some of my favorite music selections, pictures of outdoors and a couple inspirational.
Sam:So go on Instagram so you can get to know Andre. Exactly and we'll link to everything in the show notes, so it's nice and easy to find you sounds great. Thanks for coming.
Andre:Thanks for having me. This has been fun.
Sonia:This has been so much fun You're great, you guys are great. Ah, we know.
Sam:Mental Break it Down is produced and edited by Sam and Sonia. Our logo was created by the amazing art of Andoi. If you have any questions, comments or have a topic you want discussed on the podcast, email us at mentalbreakitdownatgmailcom or connect with us on Instagram at mental break it down. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Nothing said in this podcast constitutes personal or professional consultation, therapy, diagnosis or creates a counselor client relationship. It is not intended to provide medical or mental health advice. The views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests are there as alone. Thanks for listening. Bye.